Silent-hill-2-enhancements: Fixed Italian translation

[Bruno3589]

Hi everyone,
first of all thank you for the excellent work on the Enhanced Edition.
I found it in search for a fix to the looping audio on multicore systems, been using it since then.

Now, the reason I'm writing this: I'm Italian and while I find the official translation good enough, there were some small but annoying mistakes.
So I read the issue about custom translations (#111) and made a "fixed" version in my spare time.
Here it is (just unpack the archive in the sh2e\etc\message folder):
sh2-ita-fixed.zip

Most of the fixes are in the menus (save names, item descriptions, etc), but I also fixed some subtitles and a few notes.

I tested it myself in a recent playthrough and found no particular issues, but if there are other Italians around, please try it and give me a feedback.

If you need more clarifications please feel free to ask!

Some example screenshots:

Saves Menu

Before

After

Item descriptions

Before

After

Item picking

Before

After

[Polymega]

Hi @Bruno3589 ,

So I read the issue about custom translations (#111) and made a "fixed" version in my spare time.

That's great! Thanks for doing this. Mostly because...

while I find the official translation good enough, there were some small but annoying mistakes.

... this is something I've consistently heard from many non-English fans of the game. So I'm glad the Italian version can also be cleaned up, now. I'm hoping, in the future, a French and German fan can do the same for their respective languages, as well.

I did some quick tests with your adjustments to ensure everything is working well. One thing I've noticed:

Can you shorten the description at the bottom? It gets too close to the edge of the border.

Also, to be sure, if you adjusted any memos in the game, you would need to do so at the location of the memo (such as stage_apart_e2f_msg_i.mes), and also in memo_msg_i.mes and memo_x_msg_i.mes.

I will fix the Born From a Wish warning message alignment for you.

If you can shorten that description, and check one more time that all your edits are good, please let me know and I'll include your improvements into the next public release for the project. I'll include your name in the Special Thanks section of the Credits page when we update the website next time.

Thank you again!

[Bruno3589]

Hi @Polymega,
thanks for the quick review.

Can you shorten the description at the bottom? It gets too close to the edge of the border.

I can easily fix/shorten the description at the bottom, while I'm at it I see some other strings I can correct in this menu.

I'm also aware of the three locations for the notes. The few notes I fixed should already be the same in all of the files.

I will upload an updated version as soon as I can (maybe even tomorrow!)

[Badore90]

Hi @Polymega,
thanks for the quick review.

Can you shorten the description at the bottom? It gets too close to the edge of the border.

I can easily fix/shorten the description at the bottom, while I'm at it I see some other strings I can correct in this menu.
I'm also aware of the three locations for the notes. The few notes I fixed should already be the same in all of the files.
I will upload an updated version as soon as I can (maybe even tomorrow!)

I think just: "Opzioni di gioco supplementari" or "Visualizza opzioni supplementari" is good.

(Finalmente un connazionale :D ...Appena avrò tempo darò un'occhio alle tue correzioni. Fai attenzione cmq a ciò che cambi, controlla sempre la versione inglese prima. A volte in SH2 ci sono frasi strane che sembrano errori, ma non è detto che lo siano).

P.S. "Ho preso un carillon "Sirenetta" mi sembra più fedele all'originale. (La traduzione letterale sarebbe: Ho preso un carillon della "Sirenetta" ma sarebbe troppo lungo).
Volendo si potrebbero aggiungere i due punti: "Ho preso un carillon: "Sirenetta", ma secondo me è brutto e non ce n'è bisogno. I due punti sono praticamente sottintesi.

[Bruno3589]

Hi,
first of all Merry Christmas to everybody!

Here's the updated translation:
sh2-ita-fix-1.1.zip

I fixed the menu and also the carillon descriptions as reported by @Badore90

PS Grazie a te, mi fa piacere che sia utile :) fammi sapere se ho fatto un buon lavoro. Ad ogni modo per tutte le traduzioni controllo sempre anche la versione inglese, la frase di partenza mi aiuta a capire meglio se la traduzione è adeguata. E si, anche io alcune frasi le trovo strane, ma non per questo sono sbagliate :P

[IlDucci]

If you allow me a quick non-Italian suggestion, you should change the "Config. Tasti" line. Doesn't seem like you need to abbreviate over there. Know when to abbreviate and when to don't.

while I find the official translation good enough, there were some small but annoying mistakes.

... this is something I've consistently heard from many non-English fans of the game. So I'm glad the Italian version can also be cleaned up, now. I'm hoping, in the future, a French and German fan can do the same for their respective languages, as well.

Well, in the case of Spanish, I kinda have the feeling the official translation was rushed, like a first draft. If the translation was bad, stuff like all the poem/rhymed Notes would be left unrhymed in Spanish, but they were indeed rhymed properly (My only complaint there was that in Dead Men the translator didn't translate the last two verses, copypasting the first ones instead).

Konami's translations were known to be just close (but no cigar) to being good at the 2000's (MGS2's official Spanish translation had the first hour of game, the Tanker chapter, with very visible typos, but overall, the translation was good, if lacking in context, as some translations looked like someone just risked one context and turned out to be another). In my opinion, they were bad in the 90's (Made In London, except MGS, which got spared in Spain), half-decent in the 2000's, and went good the late 2000's-2010s (MGS4 was top notch).

[Bruno3589]

Hello everybody.
I took some time to review all the strings in the options menu and fixed other minor issues as well:
sh2-ita-fix-1.2.zip

If you allow me a quick non-Italian suggestion, you should change the "Config. Tasti" line. Doesn't seem like you need to abbreviate over there. Know when to abbreviate and when to don't.

Actually that was from the original translation. You're right though, it doesn't need an abbreviation, so I fixed that too.

There is an issue left in the Game Options menu but I don't know how to fix it:

It seems like a simple positioning issue, however the arrows are also misaligned so I don't think it can be fixed in the strings file.

[Badore90]

I fixed the menu and also the carillon descriptions as reported by @Badore90
PS Grazie a te, mi fa piacere che sia utile :) fammi sapere se ho fatto un buon lavoro. Ad ogni modo per tutte le traduzioni controllo sempre anche la versione inglese, la frase di partenza mi aiuta a capire meglio se la traduzione è adeguata. E si, anche io alcune frasi le trovo strane, ma non per questo sono sbagliate :P

Ottimo, grazie.
Si esatto, anche nella versione inglese ad esempio ci sono apparenti errori di punteggiatura che in realtà sono voluti (danno un senso diverso alla frase).

Gli altri screens che hai postato mi sembrano perfetti (a parte che Io avrei messo "Testa di ...Piramide"
… scherzo ^^ una versione parodica/dialettale di SH2 sarebbe divertente [io lo feci con FF7] , ma non è assolutamente questa la sede. Qui "pignoleria" è la parola d'ordine, giustamente.)

[Polymega]

Thanks, Bruno!

There is an issue left in the Game Options menu but I don't know how to fix it: [...] It seems like a simple positioning issue, however the arrows are also misaligned so I don't think it can be fixed in the strings file.

This will be fixed in the next public release for the project, so you don't have to worry about it on your end.

---

On another thread, we have been trying to troubleshoot a display glitch for the save folder screen. What we've determined is two things:

1. The "delete with backspace" line must be short in length.
2. The tab text must be eleven characters or less.

So for m_card(_x)_i.mes I recommend changing the following:

• Change "Per eliminare premi il tasto Backspace." to "Elimina con Backspace."
• Change "Lista Salvataggi" to "Cartella"

... is "Elimina con Backspace" an acceptable substitute?

We have to shorten both of these strings, otherwise the text on the tab (at the top) will either become "sliced off" as a user is scrolling through the save file selections, or will flicker as the user scrolls.

---

Lastly, if possible, I would try and shorten some of the save names so they do not overlap the date/time display:

When you're on the save/load screen, you can press left and right to cycle through the time display options.

[Bruno3589]

Hi @Polymega ,
thanks for the feedback, I addressed all the issues you reported:

• "Delete with Backspace" length - Yes, "Elimina con Backspace" is actually ok :)
• The tab name length - I saw the text flickering, but didn't know what caused it
• The save names length - I honestly didn't know you could toggle full date/time view!

Here's the updated translation:
sh2-ita-fix-1.3.zip

I also came across another strange bug/glitch, but it's not related to the translation, so I'll open a new issue for that.

[IlDucci]

Actually that was from the original translation. You're right though, it doesn't need an abbreviation, so I fixed that too.

Welp, that also happened in official Spanish. I have the feeling that Konami's order for the Options menu was "KEEP IT VERY LITERAL", so much that it just required a carpet bombing to clean it up.

[Polymega]

Perfect! Thanks again, Bruno. I made some small adjustments to the mem_card files and fixed the Born From a Wish spoiler warning position. Here are those adjusted files, for your records:

m_card_x_msg_i.zip

Thanks again for all your help with this! I know other Italian fans will also be grateful for your time and help here. :)

[Bruno3589]

Thanks @Polymega , I do hope it's useful for others as well!

BTW, if someone (@Badore90 for example :P) finds other mistakes I accidentally left behind, please tell me and I'll update the translation.

[Badore90]

Thanks @Polymega , I do hope it's useful for others as well!
BTW, if someone (@Badore90 for example :P) finds other mistakes I accidentally left behind, please tell me and I'll update the translation.

@Bruno3589 Sorry I didn't find much time for testing. I played a little today and found some minor things I want to talk about to you.
I think it'd be better/quicker to talk on WhatsApp, then if we decide to do some change we'll report it here. If you agree send me your number here: fabio.[email protected]

[Bruno3589]

Hi @Badore90 ,
I just sent you an e-mail :)

Don't worry about testing, I also have limited time to play since I have a full time job during the week. Just do what you can/want!

BTW I'm also doing another playthrough to test the translation.
I used the old converter for most of the translation work, so there is a very high chance I missed something! Luckily the new tool makes it easier to compare and make changes.

There is also something to correct in the new graphical main menu, but I don't have the necessary skills:

• The sub-scenario text should be changed from "Campagna Laterale: NATO DA UN DESIDERIO" to "Campagna secondaria: NATA DA UN DESIDERIO";
• The riddle text should be changed from "LIVELLO DI PUZZLE" to "LIVELLO ENIGMI" to reflect the correction I made in the Load/Save screen.

@Polymega I believe you addressed this for Spanish (issue #111 ), if you're willing to do it for Italian too that would be awesome :)

Lastly, there's another thing I didn't think about before: I can also make an italian translation for the website. It's not urgent since most people interested in this project already know english, still I think it would be a nice addition :)

[Badore90]

The sub-scenario text should be changed from "Campagna Laterale: NATO DA UN DESIDERIO" to "Campagna secondaria: NATA DA UN DESIDERIO";
The riddle text should be changed from "LIVELLO DI PUZZLE" to "LIVELLO ENIGMI" to reflect the correction I made in the Load/Save screen.

This is exactly what I wanted to talk about :)

[Polymega]

Some tips for future translation editing:

• If possible, use the *_i.mes files from the latest Enhanced Edition Essential Files package as the base for your future edits.
  
  
  
  • Mostly because m_card_msg_*.mes and m_card_x_msg_*.mes were adjusted quite a bit for this release.
  
  
• If you're comfortable with it, you may want to try and use IlDucci and Infrid's new SH2 .mes editor tool called SH2MSGConvert.
  
  
  
  • It's a lot more robust than the old SH Resource Editor tool, after you get used to working with it.
  
  
• And as always: Play test all your changes!! Make sure any edits you make do not break anything in-game!

[Bruno3589]

* If possible, use the `*_i.mes` files from the latest [Enhanced Edition Essential Files](http://enhanced.townofsilenthill.com/SH2/install.htm#installEssentialFiles) package as the base for your future edits.

  * Mostly because `m_card_msg_*.mes` and `m_card_x_msg_*.mes` were adjusted quite a bit for this release.

Already thought about that, but thanks for the remainder.

* If you're comfortable with it, you may want to try and use IlDucci and Infrid's new SH2 .mes editor tool called [SH2MSGConvert](https://gitlab.com/sh2msgconvert/sh2msgconvert).

I started using it for the last few edits, I must admit it's much more practical to use!

* And as always: **Play test all your changes!!** Make sure any edits you make do not break anything in-game!

Sure thing! I'm an IT technician, I would lose my job without testing 😆

[Polymega]

An Italian fan discovered, on Normal Riddle, the code has been removed from the carbon paper riddle:

[Polymega]

Here is a fixed .mes file for it. Please add this to your records for future editing:
stage_hospital_2f_f_msg_i.zip

Edit: I made a Twitter post on it: https://twitter.com/WhereAllBegins/status/1229177710456528896

[Bruno3589]

Weird, I don't remember changing this... Maybe it got corrupt when I saved it with the old Resource Editor.

Another reason to use the new converter I guess. Thanks for the finding!

[Bruno3589]

Also, sorry for the mishap. It was clearly not intentional 😅

[Bruno3589]

Hi @Polymega,
so me and @Badore90 talked on WhatsApp and agreed on some changes on the graphical main menu, would you mind to do the edit like you did with Spanish?
These are the changes:

• For scenario selection, the two should be as follow:
  Scenario principale: LETTERA DAL PARADISO SILENZIOSO
  Scenario secondario: NATA DA UN DESIDERIO
  (if the first one is too long, "principale" can be omitted)
• For difficuly levels, change LIVELLO DI PUZZLE to LIVELLO ENIGMI

If I could, I'd make the changes myself, but I really lack the skills.

[Polymega]

Also, sorry for the mishap. It was clearly not intentional 😅

No worries, friend. Everyone makes mistakes; we're all human! I know I've overlooked something or another for a past release as well. :)

would you mind to do the edit like you did with Spanish? These are the changes:

Sure, I'd be happy to. I'll have something for you in the next several hours and respond back.

[Bruno3589]

Thank you very much! In the meantime we'll keep testing/reviewing the translation.

[Polymega]

@Bruno3589
Here is a revised start01.tex (main menu choices): start01i.zip

I'll include this as part of the next update to the "Essential Files" download package as well.

[Bruno3589]

Awesome! I will try this after work.
Thanks again!

[Badore90]

@Polymega
@Bruno3589 and I are working hard in order to make a definitive/more faithful italian translation. We found that there were still a lot of errors on the official translation.

We corrected many grammatical and writing mistakes/naivety, sentences that changed the original meaning, we even found that some entire phrases were missing.
We're obviously comparing stage files, memo, memox, item and itemx page per page making sure that everything match, we're almost to start the testing.

Now, not being native English speakers, we need your help to be sure to adjust (if there's need) this one sentence correctly (since it could be not possible to rightly translate it in italian without knowing the original meaning).

It's the final part of this:

"He who is not bold enough
to be stared at from across
the abyss is not bold enough
to stare into it himself."

The official italian translation sounds like this:

"He who does not have the courage to
to be looked at from beyond the abyss
does not have the courage
to look within himself"

At first it seemed wrong to to me and I changed the last part more or less so (note: the text in brackets are my considerations, they are not part of the translation):
"does not have the courage to look inside it (meaning inside the abyss)"

But then it comes to mind another possible meaning of the original. Like:
"does not have the courage to look inside it (the abyss) himself (that means, the courage to look at himself/his image/his person inside the abyss. such as seeing his reflection in the abyss).

Which of these 3 should be the correct meaning??

[IlDucci]

Spanish fantranslator (and rewriter of the official translator) here. I think this is a take on Nietzche's quote:

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”

The abyss, in this case, being James' burden and self-denial of Mary's death. So, in order to stare at his abyss, he has to be prepared to be stared back. I have the feeling that the official Italian translation tried to make it more obvious for the player, and that's why it says that he should look upon himself. The thing about the abyss isn't just to make it mysterious, but more cautionary, kinda like the second message at Neely's Bar.

But this is my opinion, I'm sure polymega can provide a much insightful explanation.

EDIT: Take a look at this topic: http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=611901

[Badore90]

Spanish fantranslator (and rewriter of the official translator) here. I think this is a take on Nietzche's quote:

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”

The abyss, in this case, being James' burden and self-denial of Mary's death. So, in order to stare at his abyss, he has to be prepared to be stared back. I have the feeling that the official Italian translation tried to make it more obvious for the player, and that's why it says that he should look upon himself. The thing about the abyss isn't just to make it mysterious, but more cautionary, kinda like the second message at Neely's Bar.
But this is my opinion, I'm sure polymega can provide a much insightful explanation.
EDIT: Take a look at this topic: http://silenthillforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=611901

Thank you very much for your answer, it is really helpful. I'll read the link later.

I firstly thought to translate this way: "non ha il coraggio di guardarci (nell'abisso) dentro se stesso" but it's really a shitty way to write.
There's a good way to formulate the sentence in a better way, but it'd need to completely re-do the phrase in a different way and i don't know if it's a good choice.

Maybe it's better to leave it as it is (official italian translation). You changed it for spanish??

[IlDucci]

Nope, the official Spanish translation and the current replacements that are on the Enhanced Edition (I did two versions, one more neutral and one adapted to Castilian Spanish) kept this line intact.
Here's the official Spanish translation:

Quien no tenga el valor suficiente
para dejar que lo observen
desde el abismo no tendrá el valor
suficiente para encararse a él.

A literal translation would say this: "Whoever doesn't have enough courage to let itself be watched from the abyss will not have enough courage to face it." (Repeating abyss would be redundant in Spanish).

[Badore90]

I think I'll definitely leave it as it is.
I wanted to make it more like the english version but it wouldn't render well in italian.

[Badore90]

Nope, the official Spanish translation and the current replacements that are on the Enhanced Edition (I did two versions, one more neutral and one adapted to Castilian Spanish) kept this line intact.
Here's the official Spanish translation:

Quien no tenga el valor suficiente
para dejar que lo observen
desde el abismo no tendrá el valor
suficiente para encararse a él.

Thank you. I already checked the spanish version Yesterday :)

A literal translation would say this: "Whoever doesn't have enough courage to let itself be watched from the abyss will not have enough courage to face it."

The end it's a middle ground between eng and ita translations. Plus compared to italian You added "enough courage" and omitted "from beyond". The meaning remains the same in all versions.

(Repeating abyss would be redundant in Spanish).

Yes, as in italian.

We could just change "farsi guardare" (to be looked at / para ser visto) to "lasciarsi guardare" (let yourself be looked at / déjate mirar).

We'll see. Thank you again for the help!

[Bruno3589]

If you're comfortable with it, you may want to try and use IlDucci and Infrid's new SH2 .mes editor tool called [SH2MSGConvert](https://gitlab.com/sh2msgconvert/sh2msgconvert).

About the tool... I was curious to see if it can convert multiple files at once.
Turns out it doesn't:

Therefore the files must be converted one at a time.
I don't know if the developer has plans to support wildcards, it could be a nice addition to an already great tool.

[IlDucci]

The tool doesn't support wildcards, it was created thinking on using batch files and FOR commands.

@Infrid might tell more about wildcards.

[Infrid]

@Bruno3589 That feature is called "glob expansion" and if I recall correctly Windows's cmd does not support that, it's up to the operating system (or more precisely the shell environment) to convert that expression in a sequence of file names.

Even though the tool only support one file as argument, but we can easily improve this aspect and support many files as arguments.

Just please open an issue in the project's page

https://gitlab.com/sh2msgconvert/sh2msgconvert/issues

or I will forget about it!

Grazie!

[Bruno3589]

Ah ok, didn't know about that.
I guess I will open an issue there then 👍 thanks!

[Badore90]

@IlDucci @Polymega and whoever is connoisseur about the dialogs.

about the letters files. I see that the letter_w0_msg_e.mes file is present only in eng and jap languages (I'm referring to the original data folder).

It is the case of adding it in italian too?? It is known when that file is called?? I firstly thought it could be a unused file, but then I seen it in the sh2 folder, so if it's been updated it means it is used right?

[Badore90]

There are a lot of errors in the original letter_w0_msg_e.mes from the data folder, was it really used?

[Polymega]

There are a lot of errors in the original letter_w0_msg_e.mes from the data folder, was it really used?

My memory is pretty fuzzy on this, because of how long it's been since I've cleaned up the English files. I do remember one version of Mary's .mes letter was really bad. And because of how bad it is, I don't think it was used (because people would notice all these errors in-game), but I went ahead and cleaned it up anyways, I think, just to be safe.

And truth be told: If a .mes file has a *_x*.mes equivalent, then you only need to edit/update the "_x" version. The "_x" signifies it's used for the Director's Cut version. The PC version (regardless of region) is considered the Director's Cut so it will only use the "_x" version, if both are avaialble.

I also played this safe and edited both versions of these .mes files. But you probably don't need to do that, if you don't want to.

[Badore90]

My memory is pretty fuzzy on this, because of how long it's been since I've cleaned up the English files. I do remember one version of Mary's .mes letter was really bad. And because of how bad it is, I don't think it was used (because people would notice all these errors in-game), but I went ahead and cleaned it up anyways, I think, just to be safe.

Understood, thank you! Yes it was that file for sure (it has errors like missing spaces, so 2 words are attacked in many paragraphs).
I was worried that non english/jap users may had some lines missing all this time, but it shouldn't be the case.

And truth be told: If a .mes file has a _x.mes equivalent, then you only need to edit/update the "_x" version. The "_x" signifies it's used for the Director's Cut version. The PC version (regardless of region) is considered the Director's Cut so it will only use the "_x" version, if both are avaialble.
I also played this safe and edited both versions of these .mes files. But you probably don't need to do that, if you don't want to.

We know about it, the X stand for Xbox indeed. However we made sure to have both files (item/itemx and memo/memox) to match (in the paragraphs that are present in both).

I naively didn't thought about this being useless. So yes, let's say it's for safety '^^

…One thing about the SH2 E3 2001 trailer. This is one of my favorite game trailer of all times. I was wondering why the version present on the EE is a little mashed horizzontally.

I esxtracted it from the MG2 making off DVD and it's in perfect 16:9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3MpHmPLzx8

Maybe the resolution makes some difference (this one is 576 lines vs 438 of the EE one. Being this the case though the EE one should have wider proportions).
I think that just stretching the EE one horizzontally will make it perfect.

[IlDucci]

There's a few files that are around but are completely unused. letter_w0_msg is one of them, as w1 and w2 are the ones actually used. Another one is config_pc, which had the whole setup for the PC controls window until, I suppose, the porting team decided to use a mix of the old option file and Windows' keyboard and mouse names.

A little surprise comment: I found the _x files in the PAL version of the base PS2 game, not the Director's Cut... So that means Maria's story was already being planned by then.

[Badore90]

There's a few files that are around but are completely unused. letter_w0_msg is one of them, as w1 and w2 are the ones actually used. Another one is config_pc, which had the whole setup for the PC controls window until, I suppose, the porting team decided to use a mix of the old option file and Windows' keyboard and mouse names.

There's even the file just named letter_msg. It is pratically the same as the letter_w0.

A little surprise comment: I found the _x files in the PAL version of the base PS2 game, not the Director's Cut... So that means Maria's story was already being planned by then.

Interesting. Probably when they were "adjusting" the game for the first PAL release, the Xbox version was already in development.

[Polymega]

…One thing about the SH2 E3 2001 trailer. This is one of my favorite game trailer of all times. I was wondering why the version present on the EE is a little mashed horizzontally.

From the new ReadMe file in the FMV Pack:

• The TRAILER FMVs use angular graphic's original improved versions of them, as these were the least important videos to revisit, and rendering them out at higher resolutions would result in a much larger download package. (That, and the trailer videos can be more readily/easily viewed on YouTube, since they're never actually used/played while progressing through the game.)

3GB is already quite large for the FMV Pack.

[Badore90]

3GB is already quite large for the FMV Pack.

I understand. But I wasn't complaining about the resolution/quality, just the proportions/aspect ratio. That trailer would be perfect with a little horizontal stretch.

[Bruno3589]

We're almost done with the new translation update, we're planning do a round of testing each before uploading the final version here.

It is a pretty consistent update, as @Badore90 said he made a lot of fixes to the memos and dialogs, after that we reviewed all the italian .mes files together to make the translation more correct from a grammatical standpoint, while keeping it as faithful as possible to the original material and avoiding changes to the meaning of a sentence.
We also fixed missing punctuation and text color, and reverted some unnecessary changes.

@Polymega since it's a significant improvement for italian players, could you consider updating the Essential Files package once we upload the final version here?

P.S. I also believe @Badore90 deserves to be added here ;)

[Polymega]

We're almost done with the new translation update

Fantastic! I'm happy to hear the entire process went well. Many Italian fans will now have a better experience thanks for both of your efforts.

could you consider updating the Essential Files package once we upload the final version here?

Absolutely. I can go ahead and add it/update the package early so people can get it sooner, before the next major update for the project. If you're okay with that.

We also fixed missing punctuation and text color, and reverted some unnecessary changes.

Take note of the text colorings in the m_card_x_msg_*.mes file. These were changed for the latest update so please ensure the new colorings are preserved with your edits. Here's that file again to use for text color comparisons: m_card_x_msg_i.zip

That's the only file with new colorings that needs to stay consistent across all language versions.

P.S. I also believe @Badore90 deserves to be added here ;)

Of course, I will add his name there the next time I edit the site. :)

[Badore90]

Take note of the text colorings in the m_card_x_msg_*.mes file. These were changed for the latest update so please ensure the new colorings are preserved with your edits. Here's that file again to use for text color comparisons: m_card_x_msg_i.zip
That's the only file with new colorings that needs to stay consistent across all language versions.

We didn't change colors in any file, just added a couple missing (blu) ones that were white in italian.
...About this subject, I noticed in english files there are some unnecessary <"COLOR-WHITE"> (sorry for the added quotation marks, but otherwise it wouldn't display), i.e.

<"COLOR-BLUE">Heaven's Night

<"COLOR-WHITE">The name of this establishment.<"SEPARATORB">

The text automatically returns white when you head to the line below and start writing from the line's beginning (all to the left). Indeed most times this kind of correction is not present. However it don't cause any problem, it works the same.

P.S. I also believe @Badore90 deserves to be added here ;)

Of course, I will add his name there the next time I edit the site. :)

Thank you very much. There was no need, but I aprreciate it nonetheless :D

[Badore90]

Absolutely. I can go ahead and add it/update the package early so people can get it sooner, before the next major update for the project. If you're okay with that.

Yes @Bruno3589 and I made some major fixes, so if the major update will not come soon, it'd be a good thing for italian users to have access to the update. You could name it "Essensial files 1.1.2" and add to the changelog something like: "non italian users could skip this update" as you done the other time.

However we have to finish re-checkin the character dialogs, then do some gameplay tests. It will take a few days at least.

[Badore90]

@Polymega We need a little help about the "Great Knife" name.
In italian it's "Gran Coltello" it's quite ugly.
"Coltello Grande" would be a little better, but still not good.

So we need to know what means in english, considering the circumstances, "Knife".
The italian word "Coltello" is used for the kitchen knife and so. I see from google translator that knife can be used for indicate a Cleaver also. That will be "Mannaia" in italian, that indicates this kind of knife:

So the question is, what means in english knife, in this case. "Mannaia" (Cleaver) would alter the meaning?
Sure to the eye the Pyramid head weapon doesn't seems a "mannaia", more likely a "spadone" (broadsword)...

[Bruno3589]

Also the most common italian translation for "great" is the same as "big", so currently it sounds like "big knife". Which isn't wrong (it's not a small weapon, after all) but in our opinion it's not... menacing enough. 😈

[Badore90]

Take note of the text colorings in the m_card_x_msg_*.mes file. These were changed for the latest update so please ensure the new colorings are preserved with your edits. Here's that file again to use for text color comparisons: m_card_x_msg_i.zip
That's the only file with new colorings that needs to stay consistent across all language versions.

I made a comparison side by side. I confirm we didn't change nothing else on that file it was already good. It match 100%.

[IlDucci]

We didn't change colors in any file, just added a couple missing (blu) ones that were white in italian.
...About this subject, I noticed in english files there are some unnecessary <"COLOR-WHITE"> (sorry for the added quotation marks, but otherwise it wouldn't display), i.e.

<"COLOR-BLUE">Heaven's Night

<"COLOR-WHITE">The name of this establishment.<"SEPARATORB">

Those are remnants of the previous text tool. I cleaned those up as well for the Spanish version and I think those should have been cleaned in English for the latest release (@Polymega ?)

So we need to know what means in english, considering the circumstances, "Knife".
The italian word "Coltello" is used for the kitchen knife and so. I see from google translator that knife can be used for indicate a Cleaver also. That will be "Mannaia" in italian, that indicates this kind of knife:

I would avoid using any sword names or the like, I think the fact that is an oversized knife (which also pops up in other games, take a look here and maybe check the respective official translations in SH4 or Homecoming) is relevant. I can't say what sort of symbolism has, though. Maybe you could use adjectives such as "giant" or the like.

[Polymega]

and I think those should have been cleaned in English for the latest release (@Polymega ?)

Yes, I cleaned up the issues from the SH Resource Editor after you pointed them out to me. Thanks again for that, IlDucci.

@Badore90
I wouldn't deviate too far from the original name of "Great Knife" for reasons IlDucci mentioned.

It looks like an oversized kitchen knife, hence its name. Another way to think of it in English: It's the Grand Knife, or the Monster of Knives... The biggest of all knives. In English, "Great" in this context means the best or most renowned.

There's something eerie about it being called a knife, instead of a sword. Also, its name has become very symbolic now as being known as the Great Knife.

[Badore90]

I would avoid using any sword names or the like, I think the fact that is an oversized knife (which also pops up in other games, take a look here and maybe check the respective official translations in SH4 or Homecoming) is relevant. I can't say what sort of symbolism has, though. Maybe you could use adjectives such as "giant" or the like.

@Badore90
I wouldn't deviate too far from the original name of "Great Knife" for reasons IlDucci mentioned.
It looks like an oversized kitchen knife, hence its name. Another way to think of it in English: It's the Grand Knife, or the Monster of Knives... The biggest of all knives. In English, "Great" in this context means the best or most renowned.
There's something eerie about it being called a knife, instead of a sword. Also, its name has become very symbolic now as being known as the Great Knife.

Yes, I agree with you.
In SH4 it is "attrezzo pesante" (heavy tool) in SH HC is "coltello dell'uomo nero" (black man's knife).

There isn't a italian word as "great", aside some that will fit in a fantasy game (in a action gdr like a souls game). But in a realistic-like context as SH2, all those adjectives simply sound ridiculous.
And they Always refer to the physical mass (like saying "big knife", "giant knife", "huge knife", etc...)

"Gran Coltello" in italian sounds more like "large knife" or "optimal/excellent knife",
like saying: "this is a optimal knife to cut steaks"...

We'll choose the least worst.
@Bruno3589 had the idea of "coltello imponente" (imposing knife). It is not in common language but it makes the idea.
Another name could be "Coltello pesante" (heavy knife). Or we'll just leave the crappy "Gran Coltello" (optimal knife). It's actually the worst, but it has one advantage, that is to be 20 years old, we always known it so.

[Badore90]

Yes, I cleaned up the issues from the SH Resource Editor after you pointed them out to me. Thanks again for that, IlDucci.

I noticed perchance one on stage_x_heaven_msg_e and another on stage_x_mansion_1f_msg_e
There were others??

[Badore90]

@Polymega
I noticed at the beginning of the stage_eddie_boss_msg_e file you made a change.

Original:
The door won't open.

Some power is holding the
door closed from the other side.

Modded/sh2:
The door won't open!

We adjusted the italian too accordingly. But how you found out that it was a mistake?

[Badore90]

We need some help about this:

I thought my father and brother
were here, but I can't find them
either...

In this case the word "either" refers to the fact she can't find her mother too?? So it'd be the same meaning as "also".
Like "I can't find them as well as my mother".

Or perhaps it means like: "...but I can't find any of them" or "I can't find them both" ?? So it's a little detached from her mother search.

I firstly thought the first option was correct, but now google translator put me in doubt

[Polymega]

The door won't open!

This was for the sake of brevity to the player, because there's a man wanting to shoot a bullet between the player's head and the game doesn't pause while you're reading door text.

In this case the word "either" refers to the fact she can't find her mother too??

No, when she says "either" she's referring to her father _or_ brother (either of them). English is a weird language, I know.

Another way to say it would be:

• I thought my father and brother were here, but I can't find either of them...
• I thought my father and brother were here, but I also can't find them...

Or perhaps it means like: "...but I can't find any of them" or "I can't find them both" ?? So it's a little detached from her mother search.

Exactly.

[Badore90]

The door won't open!

This was for the sake of brevity to the player, because there's a man wanting to shoot a bullet between the player's head and the game doesn't pause while you're reading door text.

It added pepper to the challenge :D

No, when she says "either" she's referring to her father or brother (either of them). English is a weird language, I know.
Another way to say it would be:

I thought my father and brother were here, but I can't find either of them...
I thought my father and brother were here, but I also can't find them...

?? These 2 examples sound opposites to each other (they're the same as my 2 examples):
Your second example is different, the word "also" is connected to something else she's doing (like the search of her mother).
I thought it to be the right meaning at first, even the way she says "either" at the end of the phrase it sounds like "too". But it sure it's 'cause I'm italian.

Or perhaps it means like: "...but I can't find any of them" or "I can't find them both" ?? So it's a little detached from her mother search.

Exactly.

Ok, so you confirm? I need your confirm that you understood what I meant, so your example is contradictory, right?? Otherwise it means that both of my examples should be good (it is not specified, it is a "free/multiple interpretation" phrase), or maybe is not possible to explain what I mean in english? I don't know.

However if there's some doubt I think We'll just leave the original translation, it sounds like this:

I thought my father and brother were here, instead nothing (or ...but nothing)...

Maybe the official translators ended up so, exactly for avoiding a possible misinterpretation.

[Badore90]

Found another here: stage_hospital_1f_f_msg_e line 78. I don't know if you alredy cleaned up all.
Tell me if so, thus I won't keep reporting if I find something else.

[Polymega]

Are you referring to <COLOR-WHITE>Something else is written by hand.? If so, I just removed <COLOR-WHITE>. It's another remnant from working in the SH Resource Editor.

[Badore90]

Are you referring to Something else is written by hand.? If so, I just removed . It's another remnant from working in the SH Resource Editor.

Yes I was referring to it.

[Polymega]

I went back and fixed the remaining SH Resource Editor color formatting errors in the English files. These include:

memo_msg_e
stage_delusion_2_msg_e
stage_hospital_1f_f_msg_e
stage_hotel_1f_f_msg_e
stage_society_msg_e
stage_x_heaven_msg_e

[Polymega]

?? These 2 examples sound opposites to each other (they're the same as my 2 examples):

I understand what you mean. For the English version, it's understood she's looking for her father and brother in Silent Hill, where she was also looking for her mother, through context from the previous line.

Me too. I’m looking for my mama... I mean my mother. It’s been so long since I’ve seen her. I thought my father and brother were here, but I can’t find them either... I’m sorry... It’s not your problem.

When she says she's looking for her mama, she uses present tense, so we can infer that's why she's currently at the graveyard. Then, when she says she's also looking for her father/brother, we know she's also looking for them here, as well (a continuation of her search here).

So if Angela said, "but I can't find either of them..." or "but I also can't find them..." it could work either way; for the English version, at least. But for the English version, "but I can't find them either..." is the best way to say it.

[Badore90]

?? These 2 examples sound opposites to each other (they're the same as my 2 examples):

I understand what you mean. For the English version, it's understood she's looking for her father and brother in Silent Hill, where she was also looking for her mother, through context from the previous line.
Me too. I’m looking for my mama... I mean my mother. It’s been so long since I’ve seen her. I thought my father and brother were here, but I can’t find them either... I’m sorry... It’s not your problem.
When she says she's looking for her mama, she uses present tense, so we can infer that's why she's currently at the graveyard. Then, when she says she's also looking for her father/brother, we know she's also looking for them here, as well (a continuation of her search here).
So if Angela said, "but I can't find either of them..." or "but I also can't find them..." it could work either way; for the English version, at least. But for the English version, "but I can't find them either..." is the best way to say it.

Then it's perfectly clear, thank you. It's like she's saying: "I can't find any of them".

So it'd be good in any way.
We made it like so in italian: "...but I can't find them".

My mystake was to interpretate "either" as "both". I think this was causing the misunderstanding.

[Bruno3589]

Hi @Polymega,
if you don't mind, there's another sentence we're not sure about.
In the hotel, James gives a comment about a telephone which doesn't work:
I can't hear anything from the receiver. Could the phone line possibly be cut?

The second sentence has been mistranslated in italian as "Maybe the phone wire has been cut?".
We agreed on the fact that "line" probably refers to the phone _service_ rather than the physical wire.

What we're not sure about is if it's a person who cut the line or the line is simply cut for some reason (for example, a malfunction).
It looks like it can go both ways:
Could the phone line possibly be cut by someone?
Could the phone line possibly be cut for some reason?

Can you shed some light on this?
Thanks 😃

[Polymega]

I can't hear anything from the receiver. Could the phone line possibly be cut?

You're correct that Americans often refer to the phone service as the "line" coming into their homes. (Technically, there is a line that must come from a utility pole to their home or place of business.)

So this could be taken either way:

• The phone service has been shut off to the Hotel as a whole. In this case, people could say the "phone lines are dead," or "the line has be cut."
• Or someone cut the actual, physical cord (line) from that particular phone receiver.

What we're not sure about is if it's a person who cut the line or the line is simply cut for some reason (for example, a malfunction).

It's too hard to say! 😛 And there's not much to work from to decipher what James is actually meaning. Personally? I wouldn't be too worried about how you translate this particular piece of flavor text (non-important text). But if I were to guess: I would assume James is wondering if the entire phone service has been shut off (cut) from the Hotel.

[Bruno3589]

Yes, we know it's a very minor issue, but in a game which is chock-full of hidden meanings we want to be sure not to make unintentional changes (it already happened, that's why we reverted some of them).

In this case we'll probably just change the "wire" part and leave the rest as is.

Thanks for the help!

[IlDucci]

The Spanish version also went for the physical cable being physically cut. Maybe that adds an extra of uneasiness.

In any case, I'm not sure if the best way to tackle those things would be by having someone who knows Japanese...

[Badore90]

The Spanish version also went for the physical cable being physically cut. Maybe that adds an extra of uneasiness.

Sometimes I check the spanish files and the official translations seems almost to match completely with the italian.

In any case, I'm not sure if the best way to tackle those things would be by having someone who knows Japanese…

Well, english version should have been carefully supervised by the official team.

However I agree with you, since I know there are many japanise ways of saying that are impossible to render in english (but possible in italian and I think spanish too).
FF IX is one good example here in Italy. It's a direct translation from Japanise (I played it both in italian and english).

[Badore90]

I went back and fixed the remaining SH Resource Editor color formatting errors in the English files. These include:
item_x_msg_e
memo_msg_e
stage_delusion_2_msg_e
stage_hospital_1f_f_msg_e
stage_hotel_1f_f_msg_e
stage_society_msg_e
stage_x_heaven_msg_e

There's one in stage_prison_n_msg_e, line 41

Some others in stage_prison_s_msg_e, line 6, 52, 66 (there were just the "..." originally)

[Badore90]

I noticed a lot of removed "..." in the english text files. I'm updating the italian files accordingly. Btw I have now the doubt it could be some mistake due to the old text editor??

This is an example (there are dozens similar):

That is the original file from Data folder. The updated one (from sh2 folder) has the "..." removed.
A bunch of descriptions/James thoughts and characters phrases got this treatment.
Is it a wanted thing?

[Polymega]

Ellipsis are used with reckless abandon in the text, to the point where their use becomes muddied down and no longer significant. And there are points where the text uses comically long amounts of dots, whereas there should only be three used to form an ellipsis.

So ellipsis were cleaned up and used more sparingly.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YFiLSLvFXhiSmog9-hHtEU2ea-zQYXrSDPJnrm5j7wM/edit?usp=sharing
I haven't updated that sheet in a while.

[Badore90]

Ellipsis are used with reckless abandon in the text, to the point where their use becomes muddied down and no longer significant. And there are points where the text uses comically long amounts of dots, whereas there should only be three used to form an ellipsis.
So ellipsis were cleaned up and used more sparingly.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YFiLSLvFXhiSmog9-hHtEU2ea-zQYXrSDPJnrm5j7wM/edit?usp=sharing
I haven't updated that sheet in a while.

I was pretty sure it was so, indeed we almost finished to adjust all the text accordingly (removing the 4/5 dots, adding a gap, etc...).
I needed a confirmation, just to be sure.

[Badore90]

About this: <"TEXT-POS-120">, here:

This is from stage_x_heaven_msg_e, the one in sh2 folder.

Should we add that correction on the italian file too?? Like this:

Originally it was so:

[IlDucci]

About this: <"TEXT-POS-120">, here:

Yes, add that. That specific string appears the first time you enter the Born from a Wish campaign, in a screen with a sign over a fence. The code is used to move the text vertically, so it's used to center it.

PS2 and XBOX used as it fit nicely with six lines, but the PC version, for some reason, removed the code. In your case, you might wanna check out that screen and maybe change the height values.

[Polymega]

It fixes this:
https://github.com/ThirteenAG/WidescreenFixesPack/issues/620

Originally, I had to use sloppy hack job to fix it in the Resource Editor, before SH2MSGConvert was made.

https://github.com/elishacloud/Silent-Hill-2-Enhancements/issues/111#issuecomment-562408488

[Badore90]

Another one to clean in: stage_x_mansion_1f_msg_e, line 264

[Polymega]

Thank you. I think I found and fixed all these issues the other week. (I did one large check/sweep for them all at that time.)

Here's the latest of what I have for the English text: msg_e.zip

[Badore90]

The italian correction is almost finished.
All the important things are done. Actually they were mostly quite simple to adjust. An example:

Mama, I was looking for you!
Now you're the only one left.
Maybe then...
Maybe then I can rest.

In italian they mistaken it, it was like so:

...Later maybe
maybe I'll be able to rest

We correct it and many other similar dialog mistakes.

But we're finding a lot of difficulty in some "secondary" phrases. They're exploration comments, but they're actually important imho, since they can say a lot about the characters temper.
I.e. this Maria phrase:

There's a mop and bucket here.
I don't really feel like cleaning,
anyway

I think in english you can feel the usual Maria's way of talking, with jesting and a little bit of arrogance (just a mask probably, but it doesn't matter now).
I don't know how to render the italian translation in english, btw it is simply a sad statement (like most of Maria comments in italian), like saying: "I can't handle to clean".

Anyway. we need a little help with this one, from Ernest (Maria scenario, masion 1f):

That's the only item I couldn't
get myself.

In italian there are 2 ways to interpret it (more or less… It's not simple to interpretate):

1. That's the only item that I wouldn't have been able to take on my own/alone (so he's referring to the present).

2. That's the only item that I haven't been able to obtain (so referring to the past).

Then he (Ernest) explains his statement with his next phrase:

By the time I found out about it,
I could no longer leave this house.

It is good with both interpretations. However if the doubt persists, we'll just leave it as official translation (example N°1). It doesn't sound very good as grammar. But maybe we could modify it a little.

[Badore90]

Here's the latest of what I have for the English text: msg_e.zip

Thank you for this

[Polymega]

It is good with both interpretations.

I agree, the way you translated them both to English, they both make sense. But between the two:

That's the only item that I haven't been able to obtain (so referring to the past).

This one seems more on-point to the English version.

[Badore90]

It is good with both interpretations.

I agree, the way you translated them both to English, they both make sense. But between the two:

That's the only item that I haven't been able to obtain (so referring to the past).

This one seems more on-point to the English version.

Indeed, it was the lack of "by" that makes the doubt about it. Like:

That's the only item I couldn't
get by myself.

However I wasn't sure, since I (as official translators) can't understand the need of the word "myself" in this contest. Since he said "I" before, so it's clear he was talking about himself.

So thank you for the clarification.

[Badore90]

We are adjusting all the little details.

You can see that some care has been put in differentiate when to use definite or indefinite articles.

In stage_hospital_2f_f_msg_e line 63 there's one that doesn't sound quite good imho (and italian official translators thought the same, in fact they corrected it).

It says "I got the bent neede."

Considering the cut-scene, he shouldn't be aware of that needle before, he simply got stunged, then extract the needle and says that phrase. If there isn't some other secrets behind that I'm not aware of, I think it should be changed with the indefinite article.

[Polymega]

Sure, I can change it to "I got a bent needle."

[Badore90]

stage_labyrinth_w_msg_i: line 47

"You were always so forgetful…"

Official italian translation has: "You are always so forgetful"

We can correct it in two ways:

1. "Sei sempre stato così smemorato" (You have always been so forgetful)
2. "Eri sempre così smemorato" (You were always so forgetful)

The doubt is because google, translate both english phrases the same.

The first option is more general (you have Always been… implied so far) and thus more directly connected to her previous phrases.
The second instead is referring to the past (Eri/You were…) a little less connected to previous phrases. It precisely implies a refer to the past, as if James is already dead or (more probably) referring to the fact that Maria is now speaking as Mary (that's dead) about past events.

There just a little difference in the precision. I'd want to know if google translator is mistaking this.
I'm not sure "You were" can be translated to "Sei sempre stato".

[Polymega]

or (more probably) referring to the fact that Maria is now speaking as Mary (that's dead) about past events.

This is what I also think. The best way I can think to answer this is:

When she says, "You were always so forgetful," she says it in a past tense ("were" instead of "are"). What makes this creepy is that it's as if Mary is talking to James from beyond the grave (channeling herself through Maria).

Mary is rekindling her memories of James from when she was still alive...

At least, that's how I always took it as.

[Badore90]

What does this description refer to?

In italian they translated like so: "Maybe the key is broken. I can't open it ("it" is masculine)"

In italian there's no a word like "it", we specify whether it is male or female. So according to italian official translation, "it" can be a padlock or some kind of block. It can not be a door lock ('cause it is "serratura" is female).

We'd like to know where this description is used, for making a correct translation, but we couldn't find it.

[Badore90]

About this expression:

Maria and Laura are still in here.
I can't just throw them away.

Which You think it is better between these:

1. "I can't (just) abandon them"
2. "I can't (just) leave as if nothing had happened"

Or if you have any better alternative, let us know. The original phrase can't be rendered very well in italian. We want a different phrase that will preserve the correct sense.

[Polymega]

"The lock might be broken. I can't seem to open it."

I'm not sure where this is off the top of my head. If I happen to come across it in-game at a later time, I will let you know.

"I can't just throw them away."

This is weird, even for English usage. We don't say we'll "throw someone away" if we want to leave or abandon them. This is likely a case of literal translation from the Japanese script. And this line can't really be changed for English usage either, because when you confront Maria for the final time for the Leave Ending, she says, "How can you just throw me away?" So it's better to leave that line as-is (for the English version). But it would make much more sense to say, "I can't abandon them."

Anyway... I think your first option of, "I can't (just) abandon them," is the better of the two.

Edit: I actually made a tweet about this a while ago: https://twitter.com/theRatiocinator/status/1022996151858028544

[Badore90]

"The lock might be broken. I can't seem to open it."
I'm not sure where this is off the top of my head. If I happen to come across it in-game at a later time, I will let you know.
"I can't just throw them away."
This is weird, even for English usage. We don't say we'll "throw someone away" if we want to leave or abandon them. This is likely a case of literal translation from the Japanese script. And this line can't really be changed for English usage either, because when you confront Maria for the final time for the Leave Ending, she says, "How can you just throw me away?" So it's better to leave that line as-is (for the English version). But it would make much more sense to say, "I can't abandon them."
Anyway... I think your first option of, "I can't (just) abandon them," is the better of the two.
Edit: I actually made a tweet about this a while ago: https://twitter.com/theRatiocinator/status/1022996151858028544

I didn't noticed, it's very interesting, thank you.

Actually there's the way to render the original phrase in italian, but it would be longer and articulated differently.

Anyway @Bruno3589 had this idea:

hospital: "...I can't (just) dump them like that"

leave ending: "...How can you dump me like this?"

[IlDucci]

In italian they translated like so: "Maybe the key is broken. I can't open it ("it" is masculine)"

In italian there's no a word like "it", we specify whether it is male or female. So according to italian official translation, "it" can be a padlock or some kind of block. It can not be a door lock ('cause it is "serratura" is female).

We'd like to know where this description is used, for making a correct translation, but we couldn't find it.

I can't remember which element does this come from, but there's only two choices in the straight hotel: a door or the metal bar door that blocks the path to James and Mary's room.

In any case, in Spanish I tend to default to the gender of the most common denominator, if you want to play safe: a door.

You could also try the door from the Dog ending and see if it's that, since it comes next to the dog key string. But... Wasn't that a straight copy from the non-openable door string found in common? In that case, you should unify both cases.

[Polymega]

but there's only two choices in the straight hotel: a door or the metal bar door that blocks the path to James and Mary's room.

I just checked and couldn't find this string in-game, either. This area is very, very small so there's not a lot of places to check. It's very likely this is an unused line. I think I remember finding some other lines in other .mes files that were never used.

In any case, in Spanish I tend to default to the gender of the most common denominator, if you want to play safe: a door.

I agree: This is the safest bet. But I'm thinking this string might not be used in Hotel 3rd Floor.

[Badore90]

@IlDucci Wich program do you used for managing .mgf file?? I'd like to put the corrected test files on my Ps2 iso but the etc folder is a .mgf file.

[IlDucci]

@IlDucci Wich program do you used for managing .mgf file?? I'd like to put the corrected test files on my Ps2 iso but the etc folder is a .mgf file.

Well, that's where things get really, really messy. I was unable to find any existing tool for modifying the PS2 version itself. The files within the disc do not have headers that indicate the positions of files (those are hidden within the game's executable file, the ELF/SLES). So I had to use a tool to inject the files into the ETC.MGF file, making sure the edited files did not went past a certain size (not the exact size of the .mes file, but its equivalent multiple of 2048 bytes).

So... If you want to mess around with this, we'd go full on dirty romhacking here and we'd need to talk privately.

[Badore90]

@IlDucci Wich program do you used for managing .mgf file?? I'd like to put the corrected test files on my Ps2 iso but the etc folder is a .mgf file.

Well, that's where things get really, really messy. I was unable to find any existing tool for modifying the PS2 version itself. The files within the disc do not have headers that indicate the positions of files (those are hidden within the game's executable file, the ELF/SLES). So I had to use a tool to inject the files into the ETC.MGF file, making sure the edited files did not went past a certain size (not the exact size of the .mes file, but its equivalent multiple of 2048 bytes).
So... If you want to mess around with this, we'd go full on dirty romhacking here and we'd need to talk privately.

Thank you for the answer.
I thought I could just extract etc.mgf with Apache, exctract the mgf file with a program, modify and replace (always with Apache, changing the file size if needed, just like it works for the swap trick for using cogswap or other programs).

If it's so much complicated I guess I'll give it up for now.

[IlDucci]

Thank you for the answer.
I thought I could just extract etc.mgf with Apache, exctract the mgf file with a program, modify and replace (always with Apache, changing the file size if needed, just like it works for the swap trick for using cogswap or other programs).

If it's so much complicated I guess I'll give it up for now.

Well, the legwork is done, all it needs is changing the addresses from Spanish to Italian. It's just that we're going away from the topic being discussed here, I think, which is Enhanced Edition.

[Badore90]

Thank you for the answer.
I thought I could just extract etc.mgf with Apache, exctract the mgf file with a program, modify and replace (always with Apache, changing the file size if needed, just like it works for the swap trick for using cogswap or other programs).
If it's so much complicated I guess I'll give it up for now.

Well, the legwork is done, all it needs is changing the addresses from Spanish to Italian. It's just that we're going away from the topic being discussed here, I think, which is Enhanced Edition.

You're right. If you have WhatsApp, please, send me your number here: edit

[Badore90]

Another little help please:

in stage_x_mansion_1f_msg_e lines 66 and 67, Ernest says:

That's why...
That's why you could see me.

Second line in italian they translated: "That's why you can see me" or "That's why you're able to see me"

Now the question is: It is present time or could this phrase be referring to some past events??

[Polymega]

Huh. Come to think of it, he should really be saying, "That's why you could hear me," as Maria has never actually _seen_ him.

Anyway, semantics aside, he's referring to the past from when they first talked to each other. At this point. He's meaning, "So that's why you could hear me when we first met..."

Edit: But it's understandable, at least in English, for someone to say, "That's why you could see me," in this situation. Even though she's never seen him, he's likely thinking that if she can hear him, she could probably also see him, as well.

[Badore90]

Huh. Come to think of it, he should really be saying, "That's why you could hear me," as Maria has never actually seen him.
Anyway, semantics aside, he's referring to the past from when they first talked to each other. At this point. He's meaning, "So that's why you could hear me when we first met..."
Edit: But it's understandable, at least in English, for someone to say, "That's why you could see me," in this situation. Even though she's never seen him, he's likely thinking that if she can hear him, she could probably also see him, as well.

I thought it could be just a way of saying, you can see me used as general word to say you can see/feel my presence.

However the story of Maria scenario is (obviously) not 100% clear. Why indeed she can hear Ernest? Why the children books from that home shelve are familiar for her??

For this reason I thought it could even be referring to a past event when they actually saw each other. But I don't think it's really so. My first thought was exactly as yours.

So I think it doesn't matter much if I leave the verb in present or change it to past. Since she could "see" him and still can.

[Badore90]

This is another unused line I guess:

[Badore90]

We'd like to change the name of "Livello Luminosità (Brightness adjustment)" in option.msg, since it's a wrong decription.
Btw I'm not 100% sure if it changes the Gamma or Contrast, I think the last one, but I have to verify.

@IlDucci Have you received my email?

[Polymega]

The feature is broken at the moment when playing in windowed mode. Elisha has plans to make an all-new method to changing the game's brightness. I'd recommend keeping it vague with "brightness adjustment"; it's a universal term for either changing contrast or gamma.

The PS2/Xbox versions change contrast, the vanilla PC version changed gamma. I'm not sure what approach Elisha will take at this time.

[Badore90]

I'd recommend keeping it vague with "brightness adjustment"; it's a universal term for either changing contrast or gamma.

Well, it's technically wrong. Nowadays every TV has separate settings for brightness, gamma and Contrast. People are more aware of what each setting does.
That said, I understand your approach. Then we'll leave the italian too as it is.

The PS2/Xbox versions change contrast, the vanilla PC version changed gamma. I'm not sure what approach Elisha will take at this time.

Thank you for this confirm.
Maybe the best thing would be to leave it for the gamma regulation. Actually, considering the main target of this project, could be a good thing to grey out this option.

Modern digital Tvs (since more than 10 years) are set by default with the correct levels (black at 16 in rgb-limited and at 0 on rgb-full, gamma 2.2/2.3 and correct contrast level too) same with monitors.
So SH2 levels are correct just plug & play.

The user could wrongly interpretate this screen and just do damage at the overall picture quality.
It would be useful just in case of (aware) CRT users (either HD-CRT-TVs or monitors), since with a gamma adjustment (that lacks on most CRT-TVs) you're able to keep a very low or even absolute black without loosing low light detail.

[elishacloud]

I'd recommend keeping it vague with "brightness adjustment"; it's a universal term for either changing contrast or gamma.

Well, it's technically wrong. Nowadays every TV has separate settings for brightness, gamma and Contrast. People are more aware of what each setting does.

Technically this option changes the gamma. I have already debugged how this works and I hope to exactly replicate what it is doing.

[Badore90]

I'd recommend keeping it vague with "brightness adjustment"; it's a universal term for either changing contrast or gamma.

Well, it's technically wrong. Nowadays every TV has separate settings for brightness, gamma and Contrast. People are more aware of what each setting does.

Technically this option changes the gamma. I have already debugged how this works and I hope to exactly replicate what it is doing.

Btw I never understood what is the actual problem of this option as it is now. It doesn't seems to be bugged, at least on my end it always worked perfectly.

[elishacloud]

Btw I never understood what is the actual problem of this option as it is now. It doesn't seems to be bugged, at least on my end it always worked perfectly.

The option only works when running the game in exclusive fullscreen. If you run the game in windowed mode then it will not work (at least it does not work on Windows 10 in windowed mode). This is because the SetGammaRamp() function only works in exclusive fullscreen mode.

[Badore90]

Btw I never understood what is the actual problem of this option as it is now. It doesn't seems to be bugged, at least on my end it always worked perfectly.

The option only works when running the game in exclusive fullscreen. If you run the game in windowed mode then it will not work (at least it does not work on Windows 10 in windowed mode). This is because the SetGammaRamp() function only works in exclusive fullscreen mode.

I have Windows 10 in my 2 PCs.
I always played in window mode, either FullscreenWndMode = 1 or = 0. It works using any resolution.

[Badore90]

https://youtu.be/IULZ-s466f8

Bars brightness seems to increase weirdly on the video, but it's due to YouTube compression. Brightness raise perfectly across all the bars.

[Polymega]

EnableWndMode is what breaks it, not FullscreenWndMode. You also cannot use the actual brightness screen to test if it works. Those lines are are programmed to get brighter or darker on selection changes, regardless if any brightness adjustments are actually taking place for the game/your display.

[Badore90]

EnableWndMode is what breaks it, not FullscreenWndMode. You also cannot use the actual brightness screen to test if it works. Those lines are are programmed to get brighter or darker on selection changes, regardless if any brightness adjustments are actually taking place for the game/your display.

Ah ok, I didn't know about the bars working in any case. Sorry for the misunderstanding

[Bruno3589]

Hi @Polymega ,
while confronting Italian and English for stage_hospital_3f_f_msg I think I found a mistake in the English one:

Shouldn't this be "forever"? Unless it's another way of writing it that I'm not aware of...

[Polymega]

It's a purposeful typo. I don't think the other languages did a play on words like this. As for what it means? I don't think anyone truly figured it out. I always imagined it being a reference to the four locks on the box.

"Louise (her hair strand) I'll take care of you four ever (by protecting you with four locks)"

...that's always been my theory, anyways.

[Badore90]

@Polymega We write this phrase in a way more similar to how Angela talks. This way it is pretty long horizzontally:

If you think we should remain more horizzontally tight, we'll do like this:

Obviously we tested in 4:3 too. The phrase fit (it remains about a cm in every side on my 15" monitor, I can take a shoot if needed).

However consider if the english phrase too could be corrected, putting the "," or (better imho, 'cause she take a long pause) the "..." after "but" and not after "here", better following the way she's talking.

To say it all, we also changed the article, putting a indefinite one for the 2 rings and the dry cell battery in the hospital. We don't see any reason for the article to be definite.

[Polymega]

Obviously we tested in 4:3 too. The phrase fit (it remains about a cm in every side on my 15" monitor, I can take a shoot if needed).

1 cm to the screen edge for 4:3 sounds too tight (too claustrophobic). I'd recommend using the typical padding used throughout the rest of the game. I purposefully kept this padding as well, for those who still decide to play in 4:3.

However consider if the english phrase too could be corrected, putting the "," or (better imho, 'cause she take a long pause) the "..." after "but" and not after "here", better following the way she's talking.

Commas should come before "but" or not used at all, depending on the sentence structure. However, a comma can be used both before _and_ after the word for effect. So I can add a comma both before and after "but" during her sentence.

https://wordagents.com/comma-before-or-after-but/

[Badore90]

1 cm to the screen edge for 4:3 sounds too tight (too claustrophobic). I'd recommend using the typical padding used throughout the rest of the game. I purposefully kept this padding as well, for those who still decide to play in 4:3.

Ok, I'll upload a 4:3 screenshot for confirmation.

Commas should come before "but" or not used at all, depending on the sentence structure. However, a comma can be used both before and after the word for effect. So I can add a comma both before and after "but" during her sentence.
https://wordagents.com/comma-before-or-after-but/

I know, but just listen the way she talks. The comma as it is is grammatically right but it's not as she's talking. For this reason we removed the comma and add the "..." after "but", since she says the words all at once until "but", then she make a quite long pause.

Considering how the "..." have been used in this dialog previous lines, I think the "..." have to be used here too (after but) and maybe the comma could even be removed, since she doesn't make any pause after the word "here".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSQ36xrRW8s

[Polymega]

I know, but just listen the way she talks. The comma as it is is grammatically right but it's not as she's talking.

Sure. Putting a comma before and after the word "but" will match the verbal pacing of her line delivery here. It may not be suitable for Italian, but it's a proper way of writing it to match her cadence.

[Bruno3589]

It's a purposeful typo. I don't think the other languages did a play on words like this. As for what it means? I don't think anyone truly figured it out. I always imagined it being a reference to the four locks on the box.

"Louise (her hair strand) I'll take care of you four ever (by protecting you with four locks)"

...that's always been my theory, anyways.

Makes sense... I didn't thought about it being done on purpose.
In italian it's simply translated as "forever", probably because there isn't a way to make the same word play in italian (I cannot think of one either).

[Badore90]

I know, but just listen the way she talks. The comma as it is is grammatically right but it's not as she's talking.

Sure. Putting a comma before and after the word "but" will match the verbal pacing of her line delivery here. It may not be suitable for Italian, but it's a proper way of writing it to match her cadence.

Then I think we'll add the comma before but in italian too. I was more in doubt about the comma after but, since i.e. in the previous phrase is writed so: "this uh… this town… there's something"etc.

She made a sudden pause after but, and she even stutters a little when resuming to talk, so I thought the "..." would fit. However if you're going with the comma on the english, we'll do the same on italian, since we just want to resemble the way she's talking as much as possible.

This was the only line a little weird for us. We already made all other lines to match with the english grammar, all is fine in italian too.

[Badore90]

Here, the phrase if using 2 lines on a 4:3 a/r

The next one I think is the longest phrase we have. It is just a exploration phrase, we think it's not a problem. We could make it in 2 lines (it was so in original on the phrase where he use the key), but imho, is more polished this way.

[Badore90]

@Polymega We adjusted the Angela phrase this way:

"Pensavo che mio padre e mio fratello
fossero qui, ma... non riesco a trovare
neanche loro..."

About the using of commas, it seems from the link you posted that it is very similar if not identical as italian. So, referring to the last example:

Everyone was home, but, and this is important, no one heard him knocking at the door.

In this phrase the comma is correctly used after "home"(for joining two independent clauses), then "and this is important" is between commas. It made the "but" too being between commas as side effect.

One or more words between commas mean a clarification/deepening that doesn't alter the correct flow and sense of the phrase. Indeed the phrase is correct this way too (removing the words between commas):

Everyone was home, but no one heard him knocking at the door.

This way there's no reason to put a comma after "but" (and the Angela's phrase structure is this way).

The word "but"matters for the meaning of the phrase, putting it between commas would mean you can remove it, and it'd be wrong.

In conclusion, the Angela phrase, was originally grammatically correct (with the comma before "but"), we simply add the "..." after the "but" since it is what she do. She stops quite a little after the "but" (without any grammatical good reason. She just stops for a "psychological" reason, for this the "..." we think are more appropriate).

Imho, it's better in english too, if you don't want to add the "..." after "but", to leave the phrase as it is, since it's grammatically correct already. An example of this phrase with the "but" between commas would be:

"I thought my father and brother
where here, but, and this is weird,
I can't find them either…"

Let me know how you'll do it

[Polymega]

I haven't had time to look much more into this, but I'll change it in English to:

"I thought my father and brother were here, but... I can’t find them either..."

... to match yours.

[Badore90]

@Polymega italian revision is done:

mes-ita-definitivi.zip

@Bruno3589 and I evaluated very carefully what (and how) needed to be modified and what not, considering that fans know this translation since 20 years (wiki and guides too are based on the original translation).
So we only made objective improvements and corrections (a lot actually, 'cause there were many errors).

For this reason, if any other italian fan would ask you to change something, please, direct him to @Bruno3589 or me. Otherwise it'd be a mess '^^

[Polymega]

Congratulations to you and Bruno3589! This was a months-long effort by the two of you and I'm happy you both were able to complete this very challenging task. As mentioned before, you have now given all other Italian players a smoother, more cohesive experience for their native tongue.

Allow me a few days and I'll get your Italian package integrated into the 'Essential Files' package and update the website, along with making an announcement on the Twitter page.

Great work again by you two!

For this reason, if any other italian fan would ask you to change something, please, direct him to @Bruno3589 or me. Otherwise it'd be a mess '^^

Absolutely. From now on, you and Bruno3589 are the ones in charge of doing any maintenance for the Italian files. Same goes for IlDucci for the Spanish files.

Now, if we can find similar people to help clean up the French and German files...

[Badore90]

Congratulations to you and Bruno3589! This was a months-long effort by the two of you and I'm happy you both were able to complete this very challenging task. As mentioned before, you have now given all other Italian players a smoother, more cohesive experience for their native tongue.

I think no one will complain. We didn't made a re-translation (in that case, it should be specified and presented as an external patch).

This is the official translation (we didn't altered the original, overall very good, feeling) simply with errors (grammatical, meaning/fidelity, writing, ui/colors related, pagination/punctuation) corrected.

Allow me a few days and I'll get your Italian package integrated into the 'Essential Files' package and update the website, along with making an announcement on the Twitter page.

Take your time, better care than speed :D

[Polymega]

Thanks again guys. I've updated the package on the site with your improved files:
http://enhanced.townofsilenthill.com/SH2/install.htm#changelog

And made a Twitter announcement:
https://twitter.com/WhereAllBegins/status/1253176389773275136

[Badore90]

I think there is a error in the option menu (a minor one) that affect all the languages:

For the option about the wepon stance, the game should point to "Press" and "Switch". The second one is correct, but the first instead of pointing on "Press" (that indeed remains unused) it points to "Normal" (line 144 in the english file) as the other general options.

Probably it is an error, since "Press" is surely better/more explanatory for the stance option.

[Polymega]

The second one is correct, but the first instead of pointing on "Press" (that indeed remains unused)

Good catch! If there is unused text in these .mes files (for "Press") we can very likely point it to the right string. I've asked Belek666 if he can do this for us: https://github.com/elishacloud/Silent-Hill-2-Enhancements/issues/275

[AeroWidescreen]

The problem is the word "Normal" is also used elsewhere in the options screen, such as for the Vibration and Blood Color selections, so unfortunately we can't change the word "Normal".

I have experience with stuff like this from my time spent modding NFS games. Sometimes it's a string, sometimes it's a hash, and in our case, sometimes it's a number from a list.

0x46 = "Normal"
0x2F = "Switch"
0x2E = "Press"

00462120 push 2E // Text Layer 1 (Weapon Control)
00461EC3 push 2E // Text Layer 2 (Weapon Control)
00464230 push 2E // Arrow Spacing (Weapon Control)

00462252 push 2E // Text Layer 1 (View Control)
00461FC6 push 2E // Text Layer 2 (View Control)
004645BE push 2E // Arrow Spacing (View Control)

[Polymega]

Thanks Aero_. May you do the same for "View Control" as well? And that should take care of it completely.

[AeroWidescreen]

May you do the same for "View Control" as well? And that should take care of it completely.

I assume you want me to use "Press" there too? Information has been added to my post above.

[Polymega]

Yes sir, they both should use the same terminology. And thanks!

[Badore90]

@Polymega When checking the texts for a Ps2 port we made a couple more corrections (writing/sense improvements and puctuation), just minor ones though.

There no need to update the complete package online just for this little modifications.
So please, download and replace your definitive message pack with this, then when you'll have other updates for the Essensial Files package (or updates in general) to upload, those few more improvements will be available for everyone.

Definitive italian mes: https://mega.nz/#!NMFERKTC!VkFVPV1WmgfgFLgimaOw87oXb_pFMFQm-GYdyytPx2g

[Polymega]

Sounds great, thanks Badore90. I've received the files and they'll be included in the next package update. 👍

[Badore90]

Sounds great, thanks Badore90. I've received the files and they'll be included in the next package update. 👍

I forgot to mention that mes files are now 65 (I don't wish you thought there was an error) since there were one more mes (stage_to_heaven_msg_i.mes) with a writing error from official translation that passed unnoticed previously.

[elishacloud]

Implemented the "Weapon Control" and "View Control" menu item fixes.

Testing build: d3d8.zip

[Polymega]

Nice and simple fix; works great on all binaries. Thank you Aero_ and Elisha, and thanks for originally catching this, Badore90!

[elishacloud]

Implemented in: 69b5c196d456cac34685a3ee1005b43ad5aea14a