Openstreetmap-carto: Change gastronomy objects colour to orange

[Tomasz-W]

This ticket is to discuss some old @kocio-pl's proposal with changing rendering of gastronomy objects from brown to orange (it was proposed as part of PR https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/2824#issuecomment-328521710 then, but forgotten without discussion or merging later)

@kocio-pl's test rendering with #c64803

[matkoniecz]

It may be my lack of familiarity with orange and getting used to brown, but for me it looks quite ugly.

[kocio-pl]

I liked brown+red (#8c0000) more, but it was not fully convincing for me:

[Tomasz-W]

When you type a "gastronomy" in Google Images and look fastly before page will become fully loaded (photos are showed as a solid color pictures then), most of them are different shades of orange, see: https://www.google.pl/search?q=gastronomy&client=opera&hs=xSL&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiagtXxotjcAhXGaFAKHWUQAusQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=981 . I think this colour is quite intuitive and ok for a gastronomy.

As there is a plan to change healthcare objects to red (https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/2938), I think we should stay with brown/ orange for gastronomy.

[kocio-pl]

Maybe some other shade of orange would be better - who knows, it needs testing.

[Adamant36]

I would maybe go with more on the yellow then red side if its possible. I did a glance over restaurant signs back in the day in relation to this issue and it seemed like the vast majority of them had yellow as a dominate color. Especially fast food restaurants. I don't know how it would go with the purple though.

[polarbearing]

What restaurant signs are you talking about? Traffic signs, guide-posts?

[kocio-pl]

@Adamant36 Do you mean any specific colors in hex to test? It would help to have some new propositions.

[Tomasz-W]

Here is some compilation of well-known fast food restaurants logos:

http://cdn6.whiskeyriff.com/wp-content/uploads/fast-food-logos-e1358373184340.jpg

Every single one contains red or orange (as I know, it's not a coincidence, it's related to human psychology and marketing). I would like to see a test rendering with light-orange shade from McDonalds/ Burger King logo.

[polarbearing]

I find myself puzzled that we start making cartographic colouring decisions based on the brands of individual companies. What is next, landuse=industrial in Siemens blue?

Further, I would not call these fast food facilities restaurants.

I am still happy with tourism+amenity-brown for these things, restaurants, museums and alike (except those repair services ;-)

[Adamant36]

@polarbearing, I think you confuse catography with iconography a bit. Although me and @Tomasz-W might be taking a more iconographic approach here, it still might have merit as the color brown isnt any more grounded in the real world then what we propose and like he says, theres psychology behind it. If not, what better way do you think there is for coming up with colors for those things? Obviously sticking to the old color is an option to if nothing else, but its not like theres any harm in testing a new one.

Maybe we could keep the current color for regular resturants and make amenity=fast_food more orange/yellow exclusively?

[kocio-pl]

I believe we should treat all gastronomy objects as one category and change the color only here:

https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/3e0d7a0083a63aed85116fac451ab8aaf6daf9de/amenity-points.mss#L12

[polarbearing]

the color brown isnt any more grounded in the real world

It is more grounded: brown is used both in Europe and the US and many more places worldwide on traffic signs for recreational / tourism / museum destinations. That was the initial reason for using brown in this style.

[Adamant36]

@polarbearing except we are talking about gastronomy objects, not traffic signs, and I was saying in relation to that. Restaurants aren't exclusively for tourists and I wouldn't consider them a recreational thing necessarily either. So....I think what I said originally still stands.

@kocio-pl I was planning on testing some colors out when I get the time. I can test other colors also if anyone wants to provide their hex values.

[polarbearing]

recreation: "activity done for enjoyment when one is not working" (Oxford), thus until you are the chef, the restaurant is for recreation.

[dieterdreist]

sent from a phone

On 14. Aug 2018, at 14:15, polarbearing [e-mail] wrote:

recreation: "activity done for enjoyment when one is not working" (Oxford), thus until you are the chef, the restaurant is for recreation.

we do not eat for enjoyment (alone), one has to eat, and restaurants are one of the possibilities to cater for this need

[meased]

I don't really have a problem with the current brown rendering. However, I also don't have a problem with splitting amenities into edible vs. non edible categories and coloring them differently.

I think @Adamant36 is right about going more towards yellow. Here is #c17303:

[kocio-pl]

It's too light and it's harder for me to read the labels.

[Adamant36]

@meased can you test #cc6600 and like #ff9900?

[meased]

cc6600

ff9900

[meased]

The problem with going darker is that it is not very distinct from brown. #9c7906

[kocio-pl]

ff9900 is even harder to read (much too light)

cc6600 looks the best for me - not as red-intensive as #c64803 while still perfectly readable

[Tomasz-W]

I vote for #cc6600

[Tomasz-W]

@meased Are you willing to make a PR for this issue?

[matkoniecz]

I am not sure it is worth doing. None of proposed changes seems to be improvement, at least to me.

[trigpoint]

@dieterdreist Whilst we do not eat purely for enjoyment, going to a restaurant is 100% for enjoyment. Nobody eat at a restaurant out of necessity.

[kocio-pl]

We have the whole gastronomy category, not only restaurants. Enjoyment might be first aim of amusement park, but for gastronomy first aim is eating/drinking, even if there may be other aims too. And yes, I've been eating in restaurant only because I wanted to eat something (especially on journey).

[dieterdreist]

sent from a phone

On 25. Aug 2018, at 10:29, trigpoint [e-mail] wrote:

@dieterdreist Whilst we do not eat purely for enjoyment, going to a restaurant is 100% for enjoyment. Nobody eat at a restaurant out of necessity.

Perceived the whole whitecollar class is going to lunch in a restaurant every single day.

[Adamant36]

@trigpoint I eat at a restaurant out of necessity. Its the only place to eat within a few hour commute and I don't like packing a lunch because it always seem to end up either on my lap or all over the inside of my bag. Plus I tend to forget it on my way out in the morning anyway. I generally hate the food I eat at the restaurant though and the service sucks. Plus its expensive. So its not for enjoyment. there are exceptions.

[jengelh]

The new orange for gastronomy does not work too well IMO when they're located on a social campus (which is now also orange-ish rather than the yellow it used to have).

[Tomasz-W]

@jengelh We are working on that. See: https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1991#issuecomment-423797757