Microsoft-ui-xaml: 👩‍💻📞 WinUI Community Call #2 (November 27)

[jesbis]

Update:

Thanks everyone!

The call recording is available here:
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AiwORAw49JWcgfshJXoU3UvhWjZjeg?e=ulfPcY

We'll hopefully have a better streaming setup in the new year.
There's also a .vtt captions file available in the same folder.

---

Hi all -

The November WinUI Community Call will be next week!

We had a great time with the first community call last month and really appreciated the interest from everyone who sent questions, called in, live-tweeted or even wrote articles while the call was still going, and watched the recording!

I'd also like to thank everyone who took the survey so far, which we're using to plan some improvements to the format, content and streaming setup - we can talk more about that during the call next week.

Details

Date: Wednesday November 27
Time: 17:00-18:00 UTC (9:00-10:00am Pacific)

Teams link to call in:

Join Microsoft Teams Meeting
[phone] United States, Seattle (Toll)
Conference ID: 281 065 415#
Local numbers | Learn more about Teams

Anyone and everyone is welcome - no pre-registration is required.
This will be an informal online call directly with members of our engineering team.

Please leave questions/topics/feedback!

We'd like to spend part of the time answering your questions again, so please leave comments about any questions or topics you'd like us to cover next week!

If you've tried out the WinUI 3 Alpha then we'd also love to talk about any feedback you might have so far.

Agenda for next week's call

1. WinUI 2.3 release
2. WinUI 3.0 Alpha update
3. New feature discussions / demos
4. Q&A - we'll answer your questions from this issue (leave a comment!) and live from the Teams chat
5. Updates on how we'll be improving streaming and recording based on your feedback from call #1 last month

This will be the last community call for 2019 but we'll be back (and better) in January!

[salmanmkc]

Am I the only one who has been getting calendar notifications like 15 days in advance? (from the last calendar invite)

[kmgallahan]

I'm not sure if the call should be used in this way, but can we advocate for support of other MS projects that are related to WinUI and would provide value to the devs here?

In particular, VS App Center is currently building out a data sync system for Cosmos DB. However, they are only focused on Android and iOS developers right now, and UWP/.NET work doesn't appear to have even been started. ~At least it is listed as a stretch goal...

Related issues that could use upvotes and feedback:

• https://github.com/microsoft/appcenter/issues/1221
• https://github.com/microsoft/appcenter/issues/673

[jesbis]

@salmanmkc as far as I know the previous .ics invite didn't have a default reminder set - does your calendar app let you change it? The recurring .ics didn't work very well for some people so we're likely going to take a different approach in the future - we'll briefly talk more about that next week.

---

@kmgallahan I think that's a great type of topic to discuss and raise awareness about!
Also cc @LyalinDotCom, @LucasHaines FYI RE: App Center

[kmgallahan]

@kikisaints

Maybe you could release the latest version of the Fluent XAML Theme Editor during/for the call (as seen in this MS Ignite session @27:15). Not sure if that code is already in the repo and just needs to be released to the Store or something else.

Could also ask aloud for thoughts regarding the ColorPicker bug.

[mdtauk]

@kikisaints

Maybe you could release the latest version of the Fluent XAML Theme Editor during/for the call (as seen in this MS Ignite session @27:15). Not sure if that code is already in the repo and just needs to be released to the Store or something else.

Could also ask aloud for thoughts regarding the ColorPicker bug.

There is a branch for the updated editor, but its not yet complete, as it has no font options right now, but it does have the corner radius properties.

[kmgallahan]

@jesbis

I don't know if it would necessarily have a _net positive impact_, but the audience would probably increase in size if the call were mentioned on the Windows Developer blog.

[jesbis]

I don't know if it would necessarily have a _net positive impact_, but the audience would probably increase in size if the call were mentioned on the Windows Developer blog.

Definitely agree and we'll be doing that starting in the new year!

[shaheedmalik]

Is the replay for this up? I missed it.

[jesbis]

@shaheedmalik the recording from October is posted here. The November call is next week - hope you can make it!

[shaheedmalik]

Don't mind me, I am an idiot. I thought call 2 was yesterday.

[chingucoding]

A few questions:

• Will the project (structure) change a lot with WinUI 3.0?
• How does Windows deal currently with changes in WinUI (e.g. the Settings app) and how will this change with WinUI 3.0?
• Beside XCG, Fluent XAML Theme Editor and the Windows Community Toolkit Sample App, what are apps that you can recommend/develop for developers?

[salmanmkc]

@salmanmkc as far as I know the previous .ics invite didn't have a default reminder set - does your calendar app let you change it? The recurring .ics didn't work very well for some people so we're likely going to take a different approach in the future - we'll briefly talk more about that next week.

@kmgallahan I think that's a great type of topic to discuss and raise awareness about!
Also cc @LyalinDotCom, @LucasHaines FYI RE: App Center

For some reason it had 24 days as the reminder time, so I've been getting a reminder every day since haha

[kmgallahan]

This should probably be addressed:

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2019/11/25/developing-for-the-new-category-of-dual-screen-devices-built-for-mobile-productivity/

2) Embrace dual-screen experiences: introducing a common model
The excitement for this new device category creates a great opportunity for developers to innovate and reach new customers – enabling them to be more productive and engaged while on-the-go. We are in the process of identifying key postures and layouts across dual-screen and foldable PCs so that you can take advantage of both.

For native app developers, our goal is to develop a common model layered onto existing platform-specific tools and frameworks for Windows and Android. Of course, APIs to access this model will be tailored to the developer platform for each operating system. For example, you can use APIs to enhance your apps to use dual-screen capabilities and features like the 360-degree hinge.

[mdtauk]

This should probably be addressed:

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2019/11/25/developing-for-the-new-category-of-dual-screen-devices-built-for-mobile-productivity/

1. Embrace dual-screen experiences: introducing a common model
   The excitement for this new device category creates a great opportunity for developers to innovate and reach new customers – enabling them to be more productive and engaged while on-the-go. We are in the process of identifying key postures and layouts across dual-screen and foldable PCs so that you can take advantage of both.

For native app developers, our goal is to develop a common model layered onto existing platform-specific tools and frameworks for Windows and Android. Of course, APIs to access this model will be tailored to the developer platform for each operating system. For example, you can use APIs to enhance your apps to use dual-screen capabilities and features like the 360-degree hinge.

While some value being able to deliver a UI that adapts to the target platform's UI - and others are happy to develop web apps - There is a group who want to develop one app, with one UI, that looks the same on all platforms.

Windows developers who bet on dotNET and investments in Windows Apps - could expand their audience if they can develop once, and run everywhere.

WinUI being extracted from Windows, could be the start of a Cross Platform UI platform.

[harvinders]

Some questions for the call @jesbis

1. Can we expect monthly release cadence for the alpha/beta/preview releases?
2. When does the controls developed in WinUI 2.x moves to WinUI 3 releases? Are only released controls going to be in WinUI previews or in preview controls in WinUI2.x can also be expected to be in WinUI 3 previews?
3. Milestones, I understand the first priority is to open source WinUI 3. What comes next, any plans to share more details. When can we expect a WinUI preview with Win32 app model?

[riverar]

Would like to hear how Win32/.NET apps can modernize with WinUI. We keep hearing it's the future but it's _still_ not possible to align an app's look and feel with Windows 10. Microsoft does not provide guidance/resources for Win32 or .NET app alignment, and WinUI + XAML Islands is insufficient (for things like AcrylicHostBrush) due to airspace issues.

[atrauzzi]

I'd like to know if there is active work to ensure that all of this can be leveraged from react-native-windows.

*And if the documentation, paths for adoption and learning from react-native-windows will be fully detailed out.

[robloo]

I will miss the call today; however, it would be nice to know how WinUI 3.0 is going to get migrated into the existing WinUI repository. Will controls just be pulled over one at a time like the ProgressBar?

NumberBox architecture for Value -> Text conversion seems like an issue in the V1 control. Developers need control of how the double value is converted to text and a good internal architecture would make that easy. I won't be on the call to defend my ideas though :)

https://github.com/microsoft/microsoft-ui-xaml/issues/483#issuecomment-558866275

[atrauzzi]

There a recording? :)

[riverar]

@atrauzzi Looks like Teams is saving it to file right now. Standby!

[patware]

Thanks again for this Community Call, great format and subject. Two "technical notes" about the call:

1. The Microphone was picking up keyboard hits.
2. The screen had a label "Calling..." in the middle.

[jesbis]

Thanks again everyone who could make it!

Also a big special thanks to @sonnemaf for joining us to talk about his NumberBox control proposal and walking us through an example of porting an app to run on the WinUI 3 Alpha!

---

The call recording is available here:
https://1drv.ms/v/s!AiwORAw49JWcgfshJXoU3UvhWjZjeg?e=ulfPcY

We'll hopefully have a better streaming setup in the new year.
There's also a .vtt captions file available in the same folder.

---

If we didn't get to your question then please feel free to ask it again in this thread, or open a new issue.

---

Some other links from the call:

• Ignite Session: Windows App Development Roadmap: Making Sense of WinUI, UWP, Win32, .NET:
  https://myignite.techcommunity.microsoft.com/sessions/81330

• blog post on developing for dual-screen devices with early access contact info:
  https://blogs.windows.com/windowsdeveloper/2019/11/25/developing-for-the-new-category-of-dual-screen-devices-built-for-mobile-productivity

• swag ordering info:
  https://github.com/microsoft/microsoft-ui-xaml/issues/1185

[StefanKoell]

The call recording isn't working anymore: "The person sharing the video exceeded the sharing limits"

Can you provide this video as a download somewhere?

Thanks!

[jtorjo]

Hi guys: just to understand - can anyone participate, do you need to fill anything ?
I would certainly like to participate in the next call if it's allowed.

[Felix-Dev]

@jtorjo

You only need a MS Teams account. Nothing else required.

[shaheedmalik]

@jtorjo

You only need a MS Teams account. Nothing else required.

You don't even need a Teams account. Guess login via web.

[Felix-Dev]

Indeed! Just checked it and you don't even need an account as Shaheed said.

[jtorjo]

@Felix-Dev @shaheedmalik Thanks guys, that's what I wanted to know :)

[deanchalk]

The call recording isn't working anymore: "The person sharing the video exceeded the sharing limits"

Can you provide this video as a download somewhere?

Thanks!

me too - thanks

[riverar]

Here's a mirror for folks having trouble: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4C3jAMpUX8

[mariorancic01]

Hi everybody,

does anybody have some sample of ItemsRepeater with Scroller or with
InteractionTracker.

Thx,

Mario

El mié., 27 de nov. de 2019 a la(s) 02:26, harvinders (
[email protected]) escribió:

Some questions for the call @jesbis https://github.com/jesbis

1. Can we expect monthly release cadence for the alpha/beta/preview
   releases?
2. When does the controls developed in WinUI 2.x moves to WinUI 3
   releases? Are only released controls going to be in WinUI previews or in
   preview controls in WinUI2.x can also be expected to be in WinUI 3 previews?
3. Milestones, I understand the first priority is to open source WinUI
4. What comes next, any plans to share more details. When can we expect a
   WinUI preview with Win32 app model?

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[jesbis]

@mariorancic01 we don't have many samples yet but you can find one in this Scroller test page that's part of one of our test apps. You can find more info on running the test app under the developer guide.

Another option that might be easier would be to clone the Xaml Controls Gallery repo:
https://github.com/microsoft/Xaml-Controls-Gallery/

Then just update the ItemsRepeaterPage.xaml examples to use Scroller instead of ScrollViewer.

[mariorancic01]

Hi Jesse,

thx for your help and instructions.
I saw Scroller test page and I run the tests but the test app
disappears after test is done. Is it possible to run TestApp as a
standalone app.

Also I replaced ScrollViewer with Scroller and I made separate project with
ItemsRepeater and Scroller fulfilling whole page, I test it on my fast
laptop and slower touch Win10 device and Scroller is much much better than
ScrollViewer,

while I do very fast scrolling on 10000 items there is occasional
flickering with ScrollViewer but never with Scroller on both devices.

The problem with Scroller is that I didnt have MouseWheel either using
Microsoft.UI.Xaml nuget package or Microsoft.WinUI nuget package.

MouseWheel is very useful on no touch devices.

But when I test it with Microsoft.UI.Xaml nuget package
2.3.191127001-prerelease version I had mouse wheel.
Is there a way to enable/disable MouseWheel .

Also the zoom on Scroller didnt work good with Microsoft.UI.Xaml package.

I read that Scroller will be officially released at version 2.4, do you
know the approximate day maybe.

Also will new ScrollViewer internally use Scroller. Actually sometimes just
Scroller is enough but on no touch devices better ScrollViewer will be
awesome.

Anyway, I am very very happy and thankfull for WinUI library. Great job.

Thx,

Mario

El jue., 5 de dic. de 2019 a la(s) 22:19, Jesse Bishop (
[email protected]) escribió:

@mariorancic01 https://github.com/mariorancic01 we don't have many
samples yet but you can find one in this Scroller test page
https://github.com/microsoft/microsoft-ui-xaml/blob/master/dev/Scroller/TestUI/ScrollerRepeaterAnchoringPage.xaml
that's part of one of our test apps. You can find more info on running the
test app under the developer guide
https://github.com/microsoft/microsoft-ui-xaml/blob/master/docs/developer_guide.md#Testing
.

Another option that might be easier would be to clone the Xaml Controls
Gallery repo:
https://github.com/microsoft/Xaml-Controls-Gallery/

Then just update the ItemsRepeaterPage.xaml
https://github.com/microsoft/Xaml-Controls-Gallery/blob/master/XamlControlsGallery/ControlPages/ItemsRepeaterPage.xaml
examples to use Scroller instead of ScrollViewer.

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[RBrid]

Hello @mariorancic01, thanks for trying out the new Scroller control!

Because the new Scroller and ScrollViewer controls are still in preview mode, you can only use them in a preview nuget package like 2.3.191127001-prerelease.

You can run the MUXControlsTestApp as a standalone app. You just need to compile and deploy the MUXControls.sln solution and that will install the MUXControlsTestApp test app on your machine. It has a bunch of test pages for the Scroller and ScrollViewer controls. Those controls are very likely going to be renamed shortly, just to let you know.

Mouse-wheel-based scrolling should just work by default. You can easily turn off mouse-wheel scrolling by setting the IgnoredInputKind property to InputKind.MouseWheel.
Note that I can think about one difference between the old ScrollViewer in Windows.UI.Xaml.dll and the new Scroller/ScrollViewer in the nuget regarding mouse-wheel scrolling: the mouse wheel does not let you scroll horizontally in the new controls. In the old control, when vertical scrolling is turned off, the mouse wheel scrolls horizontally.

Could you please elaborate on the problem with zooming? We have no known issue with it. Thanks.

Jevan or Jesse may provide more info about the 2.4 release timing.

[mariorancic01]

Hi Regis,

the mouse wheel like you said only worked in prerelease version of
Microsoft.UI.XAml nuget package, it was enabled by default and I was able
to disable it with IgnoredInputKind property.

The problem about zooming. I tried to do pinch to zoom , I slightly modifed
ItemsRepeater from XamlControlsGallery sample where I replaced ScrollViewer
with Scroller. But while I tried to zoom it i quickly lost it.

Here is the only xaml that matters:

Background="BlueViolet"
HorizontalScrollRailingMode="Disabled"
VerticalScrollRailingMode="Disabled"
ZoomMode="Enabled"
MinZoomFactor="0.01"
MaxZoomFactor="10"
>
x:Name="repeater01"
Height="55000"
Margin="0,0,12,0"
HorizontalAlignment="Stretch"
Layout="{StaticResource UniformGridLayout2}"
ItemTemplate="{StaticResource MyDataTemplateSelector}"/>

and I am sending complete small project in zip.

Thx,

Mario

El vie., 6 de dic. de 2019 a la(s) 22:00, Régis Brid (
[email protected]) escribió:

Hello @mariorancic01 https://github.com/mariorancic01, thanks for
trying out the new Scroller control!

Because the new Scroller and ScrollViewer controls are still in preview
mode, you can only use them in a preview nuget package like
2.3.191127001-prerelease.

You can run the MUXControlsTestApp as a standalone app. You just need to
compile and deploy the MUXControls.sln solution and that will install the
MUXControlsTestApp test app on your machine. It has a bunch of test pages
for the Scroller and ScrollViewer controls. Those controls are very likely
going to be renamed shortly, just to let you know.

Mouse-wheel-based scrolling should just work by default. You can easily
turn off mouse-wheel scrolling by setting the IgnoredInputKind property to
InputKind.MouseWheel.
Note that I can think about one difference between the old ScrollViewer in
Windows.UI.Xaml.dll and the new Scroller/ScrollViewer in the nuget
regarding mouse-wheel scrolling: the mouse wheel does not let you scroll
horizontally in the new controls. In the old control, when vertical
scrolling is turned off, the mouse wheel scrolls horizontally.

Could you please elaborate on the problem with zooming? We have no known
issue with it. Thanks.

Jevan or Jesse may provide more info about the 2.4 release timing.

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[RBrid]

Thanks @mariorancic01, I am not sure what you meant with "But while I tried to zoom it i quickly lost it." and I don't have the zip file for the complete app, but I tried your XAML fragment and a modified version worked fine for me:

<muxPrimitives:Scroller
  Background="BlueViolet"
  HorizontalScrollRailingMode="Disabled"
  VerticalScrollRailingMode="Disabled"
  ZoomMode="Enabled"
  MinZoomFactor="0.01"
  MaxZoomFactor="10"

  Height="500" Width="500" ContentOrientation="Vertical">

  <muxControls:ItemsRepeater
    x:Name="repeater01"
    Height="55000"
    Margin="0,0,12,0"
    HorizontalAlignment="Stretch"
    Layout="{StaticResource UniformGridLayout2}"
    ItemTemplate="{StaticResource MyDataTemplateSelector}"/>
</muxPrimitives:Scroller>

I also added this line of code in the page constructor:
repeater01.ItemsSource = Enumerable.Range(0, 500);

Maybe that is what you meant to do.

[mariorancic01]

Régis,
thx for a quick response.

Actually I didn't wanted to do this. My Scroller is only element inside
Grid and I wanted it to occupy whole width and height of the screen,
Also I wanted ItemsSouce to be at least 10000 elements so I can test better
virtualization.

By "lost it" I meant soon after pinch it with two fingers to zoom I just
saw BlueViolet background and I could not go back to the elements.

I putted 55000 value for Height of the ItemsRepeater so that it is long
enough or very long. If I didn't put any height to Repeater like I didn't
have to for old ScrollViewer then I ll have nothing to scroll.

I can live with this but anything inside Scroller must have fixed height or
Scroller must have fixed height?

Ideally will be not to put any height neither to Repeater or Scroller
inside Grid that is stretched to whole screen.

That was point of my test, to see how Scroller works on a whole screen, how
virtualization works and I just observed little zoom problem.

Thx,

Mario

El lun., 9 de dic. de 2019 a la(s) 19:41, Régis Brid (
[email protected]) escribió:

Thanks @mariorancic01 https://github.com/mariorancic01, I am not sure
what you meant with "But while I tried to zoom it i quickly lost it." and I
don't have the zip file for the complete app, but I tried your XAML
fragment and a modified version worked fine for me:

rimitives:Scroller
Background="BlueViolet"
HorizontalScrollRailingMode="Disabled"
VerticalScrollRailingMode="Disabled"
ZoomMode="Enabled"
MinZoomFactor="0.01"
MaxZoomFactor="10"

Height="500" Width="500" ContentOrientation="Vertical">

x:Name="repeater01"
Height="55000"
Margin="0,0,12,0"
HorizontalAlignment="Stretch"
Layout="{StaticResource UniformGridLayout2}"
ItemTemplate="{StaticResource MyDataTemplateSelector}"/>

I also added this line of code in the page constructor:
repeater01.ItemsSource = Enumerable.Range(0, 500);

Maybe that is what you meant to do.

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[mariorancic01]

Régis,

I have to say something about MuxControlsTestApp.
I built it, deployed it and it works great not just for Scroller but for
all other controls. I have lot of cool stuff to play with.

Great job everybody.

Thx very much,

Mario

El lun., 9 de dic. de 2019 a la(s) 16:15, Mario Rancic (
[email protected]) escribió:

Hi Regis,

the mouse wheel like you said only worked in prerelease version of
Microsoft.UI.XAml nuget package, it was enabled by default and I was able
to disable it with IgnoredInputKind property.

The problem about zooming. I tried to do pinch to zoom , I slightly
modifed ItemsRepeater from XamlControlsGallery sample where I replaced
ScrollViewer with Scroller. But while I tried to zoom it i quickly lost it.

Here is the only xaml that matters:

Background="BlueViolet"
HorizontalScrollRailingMode="Disabled"
VerticalScrollRailingMode="Disabled"
ZoomMode="Enabled"
MinZoomFactor="0.01"
MaxZoomFactor="10"
>
x:Name="repeater01"
Height="55000"
Margin="0,0,12,0"
HorizontalAlignment="Stretch"
Layout="{StaticResource UniformGridLayout2}"
ItemTemplate="{StaticResource MyDataTemplateSelector}"/>

and I am sending complete small project in zip.

Thx,

Mario

El vie., 6 de dic. de 2019 a la(s) 22:00, Régis Brid (
[email protected]) escribió:

Hello @mariorancic01 https://github.com/mariorancic01, thanks for
trying out the new Scroller control!

Because the new Scroller and ScrollViewer controls are still in preview
mode, you can only use them in a preview nuget package like
2.3.191127001-prerelease.

You can run the MUXControlsTestApp as a standalone app. You just need to
compile and deploy the MUXControls.sln solution and that will install the
MUXControlsTestApp test app on your machine. It has a bunch of test pages
for the Scroller and ScrollViewer controls. Those controls are very likely
going to be renamed shortly, just to let you know.

Mouse-wheel-based scrolling should just work by default. You can easily
turn off mouse-wheel scrolling by setting the IgnoredInputKind property to
InputKind.MouseWheel.
Note that I can think about one difference between the old ScrollViewer
in Windows.UI.Xaml.dll and the new Scroller/ScrollViewer in the nuget
regarding mouse-wheel scrolling: the mouse wheel does not let you scroll
horizontally in the new controls. In the old control, when vertical
scrolling is turned off, the mouse wheel scrolls horizontally.

Could you please elaborate on the problem with zooming? We have no known
issue with it. Thanks.

Jevan or Jesse may provide more info about the 2.4 release timing.

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Microsoft Certified Professional

[RBrid]

@mariorancic01, some more comments below:

"Actually I didn't wanted to do this. My Scroller is only element inside
Grid and I wanted it to occupy whole width and height of the screen,"
No problem, you can do that as well.

"Also I wanted ItemsSouce to be at least 10000 elements so I can test better virtualization."
No problem with that either. I should work the same.

"By "lost it" I meant soon after pinch it with two fingers to zoom I just
saw BlueViolet background and I could not go back to the elements."
Maybe that was the result of using a large content height 55000 and MinZoomFactor="0.01" MaxZoomFactor="10". The scrollable area can get real big. It's always a good idea to print out the current HorizontalOffset, VerticalOffset, ZoomFactor, ViewportWidth, ViewportHeight, ScrollableWidth and ScrollableHeight properties of the Scroller to get an idea of what it is supposed to show. Also the ContentOrientation property may play a role in your observations. Thanks.

[mariorancic01]

Regis,

OK, I ll print these properties on the side and I ll play little more with
all of that and I ll let you know.

Thx,

Mario

El mar., 10 de dic. de 2019 a la(s) 02:50, Régis Brid (
[email protected]) escribió:

@mariorancic01 https://github.com/mariorancic01, some more comments
below:

"Actually I didn't wanted to do this. My Scroller is only element inside
Grid and I wanted it to occupy whole width and height of the screen,"
No problem, you can do that as well.

"Also I wanted ItemsSouce to be at least 10000 elements so I can test
better virtualization."
No problem with that either. I should work the same.

"By "lost it" I meant soon after pinch it with two fingers to zoom I just
saw BlueViolet background and I could not go back to the elements."
Maybe that was the result of using a large content height 55000 and
MinZoomFactor="0.01" MaxZoomFactor="10". The scrollable area can get real
big. It's always a good idea to print out the current HorizontalOffset,
VerticalOffset, ZoomFactor, ViewportWidth, ViewportHeight, ScrollableWidth
and ScrollableHeight properties of the Scroller to get an idea of what it
is supposed to show. Also the ContentOrientation property may play a role
in your observations. Thanks.

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Mario Rancic
Software Engineer
Microsoft Certified Professional