Devilution: Contacting David Brevik?

[sheepo99]

Previously David Brevik expressed his hopes on the preservation of Diablo and eventually fixing compatibility and providing multiplatform support for it. Specifically on this video at min 53:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VscdPA6sUkc

It just so happens Brevik is quite a reachable person nowadays, and given that further improvements are planned as a side project for Devilution, maybe it would be worthwhile to contact him for advice or simply to show appreciation for his work.

He can be reached here: https://www.graybeardgames.com/contact.html

[ghost]

Hmmm I like David and while I think he is a talented programmer, I don't think he would be happy about the project.

I think he would prefer that Blizzard support Diablo still.

Also, He wrote this in 1996, how many of us remember anything we wrote from a year ago?

I think galaxyhaxy should ask if anything .

[ghost]

I can see Brevik coming down a few ways about the project.

First off, he wasn't exactly happy about out-sourcing Diablo's expansion and how it ended up. So he might say "Oh great it's Hellfire all over again; maybe this time we'll get a magical unicorn to complement the teddy bear!". Any John Doe who interned for three months doing Java can now make their own mod; but unlike Hellfire they have no restrictions on what they do. Given time we'll have plenty floating around that claim to be "HD+content packed" when they really just change a few items and hack the resolution to output 1080p. Even the mods we currently have change the game in ways the devs would not have wanted.

Which brings me to something of a related note. One of the difficulties of this project was actually just deciding if it should be public. Awhile back @fearedbliss a few others and I spent hours fiddling just to get the game going. We had considered mods but couldn't find one that kept things true to the original. I decided to reverse the game after discovering the Sanctuary project. Initially I only wanted to fix the issues we had and maybe add a D2-like UI. What really pushed things was learning about the PSX symbol leak in that it meant the code could be reconstructed to match the original if one dedicated the time. Being unemployed I did so for the learning experience and curving a wave of depression. While the project succeeded, I feel like releasing it stabbed Brevik in the back. It gave his creation away so anyone can fiddle with it and produce work not necessarily to the same quality he would have wanted. I also basically threw 6 months of my life away. The source was valuable when only I had it, enough that I probably could've sold it even. Instead it was released to the public domain for free and what happened? People said things like "meh... this is stupid and had no effort put into it" or "this garbage took 10 mins in a decompiler and they're proud of it?". They don't deserve anything and now it's out in the wild forever so I can't take it back. No one needs me anymore, just pop in and reap the fruits of labor without having to nurture the seed.

Back on topic: I could also see Brevik understanding the reality of things. There was a reason he left Blizzard afterall, and he wasn't too happy with Diablo 3 either. He tries to be professional about things, but I bet secretly he doesn't like the direction Blizzard took and has little hope for the series. At least from his perspective, it's better that the die-hard community preserve his creation then a company stained by Activision. There's also the chance he might even find it interesting and want to follow along.

Also, He wrote this in 1996, how many of us remember anything we wrote from a year ago?
I think galaxyhaxy should ask if anything .

Yeah it's highly unlikely he would remember much except maybe a few things about the hacky algorithms he had to write. It'd be better to ask him about things he didn't have time to write, like what else he wanted for the game and the series as a whole. It would also be interesting to know exactly which parts of the game were written in assembly so we can preserve that.

If anything I'd rather just drop Brevik/Schaefer & Co. a thank you for series. The fantasy it creates is such a wonderful escape from our world, not sure if I would've gotten through the teenage years without it.

[ghost]

@galaxyhaxz I am not sure if I understood you, but the work is far from garbage, I think you have done something outstanding!

@galaxyhaxz I don't think you should think of yourself as discardable. We still need you and I hope that we give you some much needed energy and motivation from our commits and such. About the value of project if it was sold, not all forms of money are in dollars and gold. Perhaps, here you might have gained something more.

The reason I joined the project was because it was opensource and the intent is to be original to the game and David's intents. I wouldn't have participated if Diablo 1 was still being sold by Blizzard.

It'd be better to ask him about things he didn't have time to write, like what else he wanted for the game and the series as a whole.

I agree 100%. If I recall correctly he wanted food and recipes and such. His It Lurkes Below makes me think that those things are what he wanted in Diablo 1. Even the one Monster looks like the Butcher.

[sheepo99]

Hmm, methinks you guys might be overthinking this one. On one hand, there will always be this edge of the project that aims to keep things as close to the original as possible. On the other there's the multiplatform and preservation aspect which David said he valued, not to mention people were already been heavily modding D1 and D2 in the past, so I do not think he will ever see it as a stab in the back.

I personally think you should just mail him to let him know of the project (since in the end it is still his creation) and maybe ask him if there is something he would find interesting to see added in the future. My point is it would be ultimately nice and the right thing to do to let him know that you guys are doing this to his original work, even if for the sake of notification. On a more positive vibe, the OpenXcom project contacted Julian Gollop for a similar purpose last year, and his response was accepting to the point of recommending the project in his twitter feed!

As for future enhancements, I agree that improved resolutions, fixing bugs and maybe adding a D2 like UI without any external graphics (unlike, say Beelzebub) should be the only things added to an enhanced package. Let modders do the rest.

[fearedbliss]

@galaxyhaxz considering brevik is one of our idols, and we are doing what we can to have some faithful improvements to the game (both diablo 1 and diablo 2), I think it wouldn't hurt to shoot him a msg. We could invite him into a private Discord channel if he has Discord.

[ssjkakaroto]

As a lurker here and someone who's really looking forward for the "final" release of this project, I don't think Brevik or any of the original developers should be contacted.

Any more attention you bring to this is just a step closer for a full C&D from Blizzard (anyone remembers bnetd?). They haven't released Diablo 1 to public domain for a reason, it's still their IP. This is clear with the January event in Diablo 3.

@galaxyhaxz You're overestimating the reach of open-source projects and underestimating yourself. Don't be surprised if, in the end, you're still the only one working on this. Most open-source projects have some hype in the first few weeks and then completely die. Usually the only ones working are the original creators.

[ghost]

@galaxyhaxz I like these kinds of projects and Diablo I is a passion of mine. I'll continue to help as much as I can.

I think we have made amazing progress. We are actually almost done . Someone has even completed the game , so I don't think we are too far now.

[sskras]

Guys, if no one else wrote it to David yet, I could do it anonymously as a person (still) unrelated to the project.

I think asking a developer about reversing his old binaries (esp. into byte-exact form) is a kind and quite natural thing to do.

EDIT: But I agree, maybe Blizzard should be contacted first. It all depends on their PoV. In negative case David would totally separate himself from the project, I guess.

@ssjkakaroto:

anyone remembers bnetd?

bnetd, I think, helped to shrink the money they could be getting via Battle.net.

While devilution doesn't take anything from Blizzard. You still need the CD / the original data.

In fact, devilution could result in some increase of Diablo sales should it be still available. Which it isn't, sadly.

[sheepo99]

@sskras Blizzard should NOT be contacted on this matter, and I think you're missing the point here: Blizzard is currently only the rights holder to Diablo. Basically none of the original members of Blizzard North are part of it anymore, and besides, as a corporation, they are only looking on their own self interest, and will likely try to engage into legal action if devilution is presented to them.

The point of contacting Brevik is because as the author of the concept and a large part of the code, he would be able to provide valuable feedback. He is also divorced from Blizzard itself and expressed support for independent preservation attempts, hence why there's a good chance he will be pleased to see this project.

[sheepo99]

@galaxyhaxz allow me to also express my deepest appreciation for carrying on with this project. D1 is one of my all time favourite games, and as a Linux user and devoted supporter of Free Software preservations, this project is a dream come true, after Freeablo failed to deliver.

[ghost]

I think we failed to help Freeablo, but that is my opinion. Wheybags did a lot for what he could do.I didn't like that the project was dependent on the origional exe rather than the MPQ files. The structure of the code felt weird to me and didn't make sense.

@sheepo99 Do you know OGL? Perhaps you can help with that part of the port?

[sheepo99]

@ApertureSecurity I'm not a programmer myself, but merely an enthusiast. The only way I can eventually contribute to this project with other than testing and feedback is to eventually help translating the game to my own language, since it is what I actually do for a living.

[mewmew]

@ApertureSecurity I'm not a programmer myself, but merely an enthusiast. The only way I can eventually contribute to this project with other than testing and feedback is to eventually help translating the game to my own language, since it is what I actually do for a living.

@sheepo99 bug testing and feedback is always appreciated. For future reference, what language is your mother tongue? The person most versed in adding translation support to Devilution is @maristane (see #32).

[maristane]

@galaxyhaxz I'll take every chance I can to remind you that what you did was awesome and very, very far from a waste of time. I know there are many forces and thoughts pushing the other way in theses kinds of projects ( I take it from my portuguese translation projects for the first 2 Diablo games, sometimes pointed as a "waste of time" since the games are now so old). But those - often few - people who love it, who are thankful for it, or at least deeply amazed by it... they are worth the effort. Making such a difference in a person's life is powerful, rare and much more meaningful than "doing things that make money". I'm one of those persons hugely impacted by your work. I'm going through the roughest times of my life emotionally and financially, and my current works in creating a "pitch-perfect" portuguese translation for Diablo 1 - made fully possible only by devilution - is the one thing that puts a smile back on my face these days and helps me get going. I'm sharing this so you can see that the positive consequences of your work are very real for many of us.

And what does this have to do with Brevik? Maybe he can BENEFIT from this project too. What if this puts a smile on his face as well? What if he is desperately needing that smile? I know nothing about his personal life, of course, but for one we know he has plenty of reasons to be disappointed with the path the series is taking and that can be a heavy feeling to carry. One way or another, I recommend caution. Because, even if he loves devilution, he might be legally bound to act in ways he wouldn't want to, like reporting to Blizzard somehow. I think the best way to try to reach him would be by a more "personal" approach. Is there any chance anyone here is friends with friends of friends of Brevik perhaps? Or maybe going to a conference where he's expected to show up? Asking that way - face-to-face, without written records - how would he see such a project would be way safer.

@sheepo99 count me in to help you any way I can in translating the game for your language!!!
EDIT: Since private messaging is disabled on github nowadays, feel free to reach me through my public e-mail on my github profile.

[sheepo99]

I'm a native Portuguese speaker myself and I've worked as a translation professional for the games industry in the past. @maristane are you a PT-PT or PT-BR native?

[maristane]

Talk about a coincidence, hahaha.

I'm PT-BR. By the way, I was considering getting into the translation career. Hope you can give me some tips! Como falei antes, meu e-mail está agora visível no meu perfil no Github, envia uma mensagem e vamos conversando! Será um prazer unir forças contigo!

The PT-BR translation is virtually finished - I'm just trying to reach a few last strings present in a seemingly encypted file. Also, I've extracted all en-us and pt-pt + pt-br texts from Diablo 3 + RoS for reference, since I want my translation to use corresponding terms to that official translations wherever possible/desireable. That "matching" will take quite a while, but I intend to launch a "beta version" of the translation in a couple of days, before working on that.

[sheepo99]

I'm a PT-PT translator on my end, so I could have a look at what you have already completed, along with whatever you got from D3, so I can use it as a reference.

[maristane]

Excellent, @sheepo99 !!

E-mail me at victor.[email protected] and let's get this started!!

Guys, sorry for using this thread as a "chat" for the last few exchanges, I hope you can easily get back on topic.

[AJenbo]

I think it's also worth noticing that David Brevik good sport attitude about a guy saying that he pirated the game.

[sskras]

I wrote David an email a month ago. Still no response:

From: Saulius Krasuckas
Date: 2018-09-14, Fri, 00:25
Subject: Diablo 1 preservation
To: [e-mail]

Hello David,

thank you for putting so much of your energy into Diablo 1 in the
past. It's still my favourite:P

Well, Blizzard seems currently to be only the copy-rights holder to
the Diablo 1. Sadly, they don't support D1 on modern OSes, if at all.
For those using workarounds for graphics issues, recently (in the Q1
of 2018, I believe) Battle.net support got broken too:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/bnet/topic/20763796285
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/d3/topic/20759237493#post-11

And one cannot even download a demo of it.
So long story short:

(1) how would you react should someone start reconstructing D1 in the
exact source code form?
(Just to be compiled into the exact binary form and maybe later
adapted for D3D9 or other graphics thing of Windows10 or even made
cross-platfom for desktop OSes)

(2) And what if they ask you for some advices – would you try
answering them tech questions?
(I mean the used style, language constructs such as macros usage,
compiler flags, used optimizations)

With all due respect to the concept [of] legal things like copyright and
intelectual property and current Blizzard, I don't believe they are
going to help us. And I wouldn't be surprised to receive negative
answer of receive zero answer at all from you too. But it's worth
asking, I think.

Your support would help such project to move forward very much, I
guess. So every old-n-new fan having bought the D1 media then could
have vanilla experience again on their modern boxes:)

Regards,
S.

PS: I am non-native English speaker, please excuse me for my probably
inconsistent style=)
PPS: great talk of yours at GDC 2016 !

Well, maybe I was too vague or opposite, too demanding here, not sure. Or maybe this simply means David don't want to be associated with such project. Anyways, I pinged him today once more.

Opinions are welcome.

[AJenbo]

His email is probably overloaded, maybe he is a Twitter person :P But probably stalking him for a response is not a good idea.

[flesh420]

You can contact Brevik during his wife's Stream at: https://www.twitch.tv/thejunglequeen
I imagine his email's probably flooded and he's busy with his new game It Lurks Below. He speaks much on his streams that he's still friends with people at Blizzard so if a C&C did come down he might be able to help. Regardless, provided you're not overbearing or super weird, he'd probably answer any questions you have about D1's source code during his streams for ILB. He's an execptionally cool dude and down to earth.

Edit: I asked David during a stream about what he thought about D1's source being discovered and what he thought it being ported to work on modern systems and he said "it's awesome."

[AJenbo]

A small update on this, "we" have been in contact with him via his Twitch stream, basically just asking about a few details of the original development process. Mostly details on how game data was converted from Excel to C headers.

[mewmew]

A small update on this, "we" have been in contact with him via his Twitch stream, basically just asking about a few details of the original development process. Mostly details on how game data was converted from Excel to C headers.

And as a follow-up, he seemed very happy to share some of the details he remembered :)

[AJenbo]

I think it would be interesting to ask him how they handled the compiler setup, seeing as how it looks like they where using some odd hybrid of vs6 and vs5.

[mewmew]

I think it would be interesting to ask him how they handled the compiler setup, seeing as how it looks like they where using some odd hybrid of vs6 and vs5.

Haha, just casually mention, so we've been looking at the Rich header of the Diablo game, and it struck us that two different versions of the linker were present to produce the executable. Do you have any recollection of how the game was built, and would you care sharing the exact compiler setup, including flags and service packs installed with the digital archeologists of the audience? <3

[sskras]

So, did anyone dare to ask David about compiler?

[AJenbo]

Not as far as I know :)

[qndel]

Okay I copy/pasted the message to him on twitch :P

[sskras]

I guess the issue can be closed as no futher communication with David is planned, right?

[mewmew]

I guess the issue can be closed as no futher communication with David is planned, right?

I still wanna play a game with David, would be great to do an iron man together over the Internet :)

[ghost]

IIRC the plan was to send him an Android port once @ApertureSecurity finishes that. Now that the project is finally far enough along that the fruits of our labor can be seen.

[AJenbo]

So David has now seen the code and given his opinion so I think we can close this issue now :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTwoS-xYpoc&feature=youtu.be

[mewmew]

So David has now seen the code and given his opinion so I think we can close this issue now :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTwoS-xYpoc&feature=youtu.be

:heart: <3 <4 :D

[sskras]

David is quite brief about Devilution:). Thanks for uploading and notifying!