Vgstation13: Syringe guns are stopped by softsuits, including Vox/Plasmaman suits

[Killette2]

The other day it was a no engineers no power round, so I quickly got bored as an antag and just started syringe gunning people with spiritbreaker. I told a medical vox to stay still for a second to try something, shot them with a syringe, and even that suit blocked it as shown in chat.

Why should civie suits and jobs that don't usually go into space be classified as hardsuits? If anything, shouldn't it be counted as a softsuit instead that still protects you from space but doesn't give the other benefits a hardsuit would give you? We need to change the ability of all non-human freely given racial suits from hardsuits to softsuits with the following exception.

-engineers
-atmos
-secuirty
-captain
-miner

If you feel I missed a job where a hardsuit is used or understandable to have for (captain gets his own suit that he can optionally wear, so just let the undeserved alien captain keep thier snowflake hardsuit)

Otherwise, just like plasmamen helmets no longer flash, non-hardsuit essential jobs should not be given a hardsuit, but a space protective sofsuit instead that does not block damage or syringes.

[uazuaz]

what if plasmamen would have containment jumpsuits and no hard/softsuits at all? then they could use normal human hardsuits.

[Killette2]

I think being forced to wear a specific thing as a plasmaman is part of their drawback. They already have 2x burn damage resistance, I'd hate to see one in a sec hardsuit or riot armor.

This also applies to vox getting hardsuits, because they visit the outpost right?

[Exxion]

The vox suits found on the outpost are STUPID strong, but at least there are only four
But yeah, roundstart vox suits should really be softsuits

[ihadtoregisterforthis]

Oversight?
There is no real reason to keep this invulnerability.

[mikecari]

Yeah that sounds pretty BS.
Filthy xenos need to be chloraled and disposaled, not given free hardsuits.

[9600bauds]

Plasmaman suits don't block harmsyringes and I'm pretty sure Vox suits don't, either: this is because harmsyringes check for the suit's melee protection.
The only issue here is the syringe gun having a stupid check that doesn't differentiate between any types of spacesuit
Even then the syringe gun is pretty stupid anyways

[9600bauds]

Just to be clear: There's no differentiation between softsuits and hardsuits, they're informal terms.
The only differences I can see are between space suits are damage protection, flash protection, pressure/temp limits, and slowdown.
Alien civilian suits don't have flash protection anymore.
Alien civilian suits have the bare minimum pressure and temperature protection.
Vox suits have slowdown.
Plasmamen civilian suits have 0% resistance against everything. Vox civilian suits have 5% resistance against everything.

They are already classified, for all intents and purposes, as 'softsuits' if you wish, EXCEPT for the sole case of the syringe gun having a stupid check.

[Killette2]

So should they be piercable? Syringe guns pierce most armor except job specific hardsuits, so why should any non-human get a hardsuit that also defends them?

I also believe the syringe gun not piercing hardsuits update was in link with the wizard gemsuit being upped from 1 to 2 spell points, and making it stronger with the price increase.

[9600bauds]

Syringe guns pierce most armor except job specific hardsuits

Syringe guns pierce everything except they don't pierce any spacesuits. Not even the grey human ones.
That's literally the only condition.

[Killette2]

So it looks like we have 1 of 4 options

1. Let syringe guns pierce hardsuits again, giving them no counter
2. Do a lot of coding in multiple different areas to make some hardsuits softsuits and piercable by projectile syringes
3. Take away civie hard/soft suits (RIP plasmamen)
4. Ignore this issue because it's damn too much work

[9600bauds]

It wouldn't be hard at all to make some suits able to be pierced seeing as harmsyringes already do it, I'm of the opinion that the syringe gun is stupid though and doesn't warrant a buff

[Killette2]

Syringe gun's cons are is it's limited availability, you're busted if caught owning one maliciously, might be able to be blocked by riot shields? Unsure, can be VERY much easier dodged than stun projectiles making it a stealth weapon, hardsuits, and having antitoxin in your body will counter most harmful things they inject you with because not many are creative with what they put in it (chloral).

That said, every alien and their alien mother shouldn't have a hardsuit when they don't need one (vox). If they do need one (plasmamen), then make it piercable because they already get enough racial advantages as is, being 2x burn resist, free hardsuit so atmosphere doesn't matter (including their tank, so not only lack of atmos, but they're immune to N2O and plasma blindness)

[9600bauds]

Same projectile speed as everything else so it's not any easier to dodge, if anything the projectile is less visible
It's NOT blocked by riot shields or eswords or ablative armor or clumsy or janicarts or anything but spacesuits, whereas tasers are
You're busted if you're caught owning any weaponry maliciously
Almost nobody will ever have antitox on their person unless they know in advance you're chloraling everyone, even then you can still get creative with what you use and use amasec or neurotoxin instead
The biggest difference is that being chloral'd is a massive difference from being stunned, especially in terms of antagonists such as vampire or wizard who have abilities oriented around getting out of stuns, and also you can't radio for help so it's not unheard of for syringegun murderboners to operate silently
It's dumb no matter how you cut it

[Killette2]

The syringe is a decent sized projectile imo, and what do you mean by amasec? I get neurotoxin, but is amasec a drink?

The difference between stun shots and syringe shots is, syringes stop RIGHT at the tile you aimed them at, stun shot electrodes and lasers keep going. With a syringe gun you can shoot right in front of someone before their feet on purpose, with a taser they will still get stunned.

THAT is why syringe shots are far easier to dodge than other projectiles, syringes are the only shots that suddenly stop once they reach their intended destination.

[Exxion]

Neurotoxin and Amasec are both drinks
Neurotoxin paralyzes and silences you, Amasec just stuns you (but doesn't force you to lie down for some reason)
Both would last about a minute per syringe, I think

[Killette2]

That's about on the level of saying death nettles are OP because oh muh potency, and anyone can break into botany and make them.

[Exxion]

I didn't say it was OP
I use them all the time
It's hilarious

[Intigracy]

Roundstart vox suits are softsuits lmao do you guys even play as nonhumans?

You have to get welding goggles or a welding mask as a vox because the engineering ones don't even offer welding protection.

Unless you're talking specifically about syringe guns.

[Exxion]

Yes, he's talking about syringe guns
There isn't even a hard distinction between hardsuits and softsuits

[Intigracy]

Hardsuits are just the name given to the old RIG suits when there was a (as always, false) scare about copyright.

Literally just the name of how a suit looks, minus all hardsuits having flash protection (which NONE of the alien suits have.)

[Exxion]

But... they're called RIG suits in the code

[Killette2]

Great intigracy, now if gun fired syringes could pierce those suits we'd be golden.

[9600bauds]

The least we could do if we're changing what affect the syringe gun and what doesn't is making the syringe actually a projectile so it's blocked by riot shields and whatnot

[Killette2]

I wouldn't be opposed to that

[Exxion]

It's... not a projectile?
What?

[9600bauds]

It's magic
Don't question it

[Exxion]

How I love oldcode

Taking bets that someone sufficiently fast could theoretically grab a launched syringe out of the air

[AutismSpider]

@Killette2 >syringe gun's cons are is it's limited availability

Nigga, You Just Went Full Retard

can make syringes guns R&D and you don't need unlock them

[Killette2]

You can make a fuckton more dangerous things in RnD, that's why I didn't even bother going over the rapid syringe gun. When you bring RnD into it the point is moot.

[Killette2]

Is this still a thing?