Openstreetmap-carto: Add icon for made_made=surveillance

[Adamant36]

I suggest we add an icon for man_made=surveillance. It currently has 65 ,440 uses. There was not issue already created for it that I could find. Although it is mentioned in issues #2556 and #1519.

[kocio-pl]

The same problem for me as with road signs - they are too small. Moreover there are special maps to show them:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dsurveillance#Rendering

[Adamant36]

Hhmm I could see that. I guess it would depend on the of camera mount. camera:mount=pole has 12,313 uses and camera:mount=mast has 103. Those where the types I was thinking of. They make up obstacles sometimes. I guess I could of been more specific in my request.

[kocio-pl]

This is why I suggested rendering street lamps just like bollards, see https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/3277#issuecomment-401120975. I think we might render all such objects this way.

[Adamant36]

I agree with your suggestion there about street lamps. Maybe it can be revived somehow and this can be added to it, along with other similar objects.

[Tomasz-W]

On the one hand icon is too much for such a small and not important object, and on the other hand rendering it as a dot would be not understandable. I wouldn't add any rendering for this feature.

[Adamant36]

@Tomasz-W, look at pictures of CCTV camera polls on Google images. Some of them are the size of street lamps or signal polls. They are bigger then bollards and those are rendered.

[dieterdreist]

sent from a phone

On 29. Aug 2018, at 17:07, kocio-pl [e-mail] wrote:

This is why I suggested rendering street lamps just like bollards, see #3277 (comment). I think we might render all such objects this way.

if I understand you correctly and your proposal is to render all street lamps, poles, camera mounts etc. like bollards then I strongly oppose this. It would “hide” the true bollards, set up with the intention to block certain traffic, in a sea of other objects that only would have the same function if there was a way they were obstructing.

[polarbearing]

Agree with @dieterdreist - looking from the other end, we render barrier_bollard, barrier_block, barrier_log with the same small grey dot. Including lamp posts and cameras the same as a block or a log makes the barriers meaningless.

[Adamant36]

@polarbearing, they are still barriers though. You cant drive through them. Also, I dont know about other places, but where I live a lot of lamp posts are in the middle of the sidewalk and have to maneuvered around. Which makes them barriers. Not to mention some light poles are the wooden minor power pole type. There is even mixed use ones that are both power poles and light poles. It seems inconsistent to render the power poles as a geographical feature but not light poles when they are essentially the same thing visually/spatially in the real world.

[kocio-pl]

I guess we're on the crossroads with bollards rendering. All these objects (lamps, street signs) are effectively working as bollards and it makes sense to show them because of that. On the other hand I assume that bollards were meant to be a street obstacles mainly, but they are being added also on footways and other places (and rightly so). Maybe we should just stop showing bollards not being part of the road, because outside this context they are much less important.

I have already opened a ticket for showing loose bollards later #2756. If we do this, maybe all lamps and signs should be also rendered on z19+.

[polarbearing]

Any object can be an obstacle. A bench, a waste bin, an advertising column, though we should keep them separate from barriers, that are there for this purpose only. If you render street lamps, they should be distinguishable from bollards, other wise you just clutter the map with grey dots.

For the intentional obstacles: When you had just lightweight bollards in the past to enforce that you should not drive a cycleway with the car (by the penalty of damaging your own vehicle), you get now more and more massive concrete barriers added to pedestrian areas etc, to massively prevent attackers to intentionally run over the people there.

Thus, please don't throw barriers (on the way or loose) and other infrastructure into the same soup.

[Tomasz-W]

I think this issue can be closed as kind of 'wontfix', because:

• any object-shape-like icon would be too prominent for such a small and not so common-useful feature
• any universal icon (dot/ square etc.) won't say that is a cctv camera

[Adamant36]

Might as well. It seems like it was died on arrival anyway. At least it saves someone else from suggesting it later on though if nothing else.

[Tomasz-W]

@kocio-pl Please close this issue for the reasons above, and also because even user who opened the issue admitted that it might be too problematic.