Glimpse: Should we stick with the "Glimpse" name?

[ChameleonScales]

Update: vote 👍 or add your name proposal on this shared spreadsheet

I agree "GIMP" should have its name changed and "Glimpse" sounds nice but I find it confusing. It seems like the name of an image viewer.

I think the name should look and sound nice to make it more attractive for a wider audience but also hint at some aspects of the program (free, open source, raster image editor) or concepts about art creation and modification (expression, drawing, filtering, processing...). It could even be a completely made up word with no meaning that just sounds pretty to the ear but using a word that means "to briefly look at" gives a meaning that is not what the program is about.

If it's not too late I'd like to submit some ideas:
Edit: these proposals are actually invalid
̶-̶ ̶G̶l̶o̶r̶i̶e̶:̶ ̶(̶G̶N̶U̶'̶s̶ ̶L̶i̶b̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶O̶p̶e̶n̶ ̶R̶a̶s̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶I̶m̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶E̶d̶i̶t̶o̶r̶)̶.̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶w̶o̶r̶d̶ ̶g̶l̶o̶r̶i̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶l̶s̶o̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶a̶r̶c̶h̶a̶i̶c̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶m̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶g̶l̶o̶r̶y̶,̶ ̶w̶h̶i̶c̶h̶ ̶I̶ ̶f̶i̶n̶d̶ ̶n̶i̶c̶e̶.̶
̶-̶ ̶L̶i̶b̶e̶r̶a̶s̶t̶e̶r̶:̶ ̶(̶m̶i̶x̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶l̶i̶b̶e̶r̶a̶t̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶r̶a̶s̶t̶e̶r̶)̶ ̶(̶e̶d̶i̶t̶:̶ ̶n̶e̶v̶e̶r̶m̶i̶n̶d̶,̶ ̶I̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶k̶n̶o̶w̶ ̶l̶i̶b̶e̶r̶a̶s̶t̶ ̶w̶a̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶o̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶s̶l̶u̶r̶)̶

[TrechNex]

Generally speaking the name isn't "locked", but in practice it probably is.

This is a discussion that comes around periodically because "Glimpse" is a name some people are not enthusiastic about, but none of the alternatives people suggest address concerns raised or gather enough support within the community to challenge it. You could try raising it on the Matrix channels and seeing what the community thinks of your suggestions.

We tend to avoid adding "GNU" to the name though, because while we are using their GPL we are not actually affiliated with or actively endorsed by that organisation. It also positions us as "the" GNU-sanctioned image editor, which I think the much larger GNU IMP community would probably not thank us for. :D

[TrechNex]

Unlocked & reopened by popular demand on social media. :tada:

[CondensedBrain]

Naming is hard. All the names I find for inspiration are either too abstract (like Glimpse!) or too generic (like Adobe Photoshop or Affinity Photo).

Ideas that run the spectrum:

Photospark: there's a photo community with this name, but I don't think people would confuse it with the software.

Photo Finish: Bland, but makes its function clear. Searching it up on Google would be a struggle. Most people would eventually try adding something like editor or software on to the query.

RasterBlaster: catchy, self-aware goofiness, includes the digital painting functionality. This is professional-level software, and most image-focused professionals will be familiar with "raster."

ReFrame: emphasizes editing. It probably needs another word to make it searchable. Raster ReFrame has good assonance.

[sandrockcstm]

Honestly I think "Glimpse" is just fine. I get the arguments against it but I think that Glimpse gives both
1) A unique name that is not easily confused with another project.
2) A related idea to what it does (you look, or "glimpse" something that has been photo edited).

While it's true that now would be the time to change it if we were going to, I think the name is getting enough recognition that in order to change it now the name would need to do better at 1 and 2 to such an extent that it was immediately obvious it should be changed.

I think names like RasterBlaster are definitely catchy and clever, but I also think they might make the product too niche and inaccessible (can the average person tell you what a Raster is?). I think it's important to keep in mind that our audience are schools, businesses, and individuals looking for a free alternative to the highly overpriced Adobe suite. Glimpse is inviting and gives an idea of what it could be used for.

[linuxgirl22]

Hello, just watching Bryan Lunduke's video ... may I suggest (GNU) Image Studio? The GNU part may be nice, to show how the software originated from Linux? Image Studio I feel encompasses the many features Gimp has, and easy to remember. I'm not keen on Glimpse, as there's now 'limps' too, as well as 'gimp', in the word.

[ghost]

Glimpse is an OK name, but to me a brand should be more than a name, it should be a complete package. Glimpse as a name brings to mind almost exclusively an eye, which as has been discussed briefly on Matrix, can be a problem for neurodivergent people.

I count myself in this, however the eye icon I drew isn't a problem for me as it isn't real enough, however it may be a problem for others, so I'm really not comfortable with it.

I don't know enough about the topic to say if this is the case, but we could perhaps use a closed eye. People paint their eyelids with makeup after all, and I think that could make a reasonable icon.

[chaomodus]

Just to put in my 0.02€ - as i mentioned on Matrix I have become accustomed to the name glimpse and the community around it, so I'm good with it now. I feel like the chance to change it was in the past, and short of a really compelling alternative or reason it's not worth the effort at this point.

[lachlan-00]

Gnu Libre Image Manipulation (and) Photography Software Editor

[LunaTheFoxgirl]

I personally like the name Glimpse and think it’s english meaning shouldn’t be taken too literal. It’s like how GNOME named their music software “Totem”. We could always just set the name in the launcher as Glimpse Image Editor.

I think that seeing the name as only fitting as something for an image viewer and that the logo should take the name literally is kinda odd. (With the eye thing)

[EndrII]

Glimpse sucks
SpectrumView or SpectrumDraw is good name

[kindfulkirby]

I would avoid names with "Libre" or "Raster" in the name, those words mean nothing to the general public. A memorable but unspecific name (like "Glimpse") is probably more useful than a specific one most people don't know what to make of.

… and now that I look at it, the silent e at the end bothers me. People whose first language is not English (and some whose it is) will probably have trouble pronouncing it?

[EndrII]

@kindfulkirby Yes. Glimpse - hard to remember and hard to pronounce (native languages Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian)

[TrechNex]

My suggestions:

• Contrast Image Editor
• Vibrancy
• Highlights Photo Editor

[EndrII]

how about PhotoBox or PhotoPack?

[TrechNex]

More ideas! These are common art words I thought sounded good.

• Blotwork
• Crosshatch
• Mural
• Pastel
• Pictograph

[EndrII]

Pictograph is not so bad, but still I think I need something better.

[EndrII]

still can ImageArt

[TrechNex]

Discussions on Matrix currently have Glimpse, Vibrancy & Photospark as the top contenders. :tada:

We will keep this ticket open to make sure people can continue chipping in with ideas to consider.

I am currently floating the idea of doing a poll on Twitter and Mastodon to gauge community opinion some time this week. It would then be used to advise the Matrix chat where we make the decisions about the wider community feeling on this.

[ViniciusBRodrigues]

Discussions on Matrix currently have Glimpse, Vibrancy & Photospark as the top contenders. tada

We will keep this ticket open to make sure people can continue chipping in with ideas to consider.

I am currently floating the idea of doing a poll on Twitter and Mastodon to gauge community opinion some time this week. It would then be used to advise the Matrix chat where we make the decisions about the wider community feeling on this.

I liked "Image Studio" and "Pictograph", but I think that a poll in Twitter and Mastodon could be more interesting.

[dwkretz]

Glimpse is the best suggestion I've seen. I don't think people should get too hung up on the definition meaning a quick look. It could also be read as "Glimpse what's possible".

Here's a few names I remember seeing/hearing in the past:

Mage
Pixel Shop / Fix / Mill
Photo Fix / Mill / Lab
Phixel
Raster

I like Photospark from this thread, but I would still favor Glimpse over it.

[ChameleonScales]

Wow Bryan Lunduke and The Linux Gamer both made a video about it. I especially recommend watching Lunduke's. I pretty much agree with every point he made, except I'm not sure a committee decision will necessarily go bad in this case, although I wouldn't advise a final decision by vote because most people - including me - are not professional brand marketers and maybe my ideas were bad too. That said, getting many ideas thrown can help find what's right.
Lunduke is also proposing his help which I find very kind.

[kylealanr]

I agree with the sentiment that Lunduke's video is worth considering, it seems like it's coming from a good faith criticism about "selling" OSS as an alternative to proprietary software like Photoshop.

Looking through the thready I quite like the name "Image Studio" for the reasons suggested by @linuxgirl22, but I would like to suggest Image Factory with or without the preceding GNU. In the vain of Photoshop the first impression of the name lets you know that it's something that works with photos or images in some sort of powerful work environment. However, I think the implications of calling something a factory will make it clearer to potential adopters that the program is something to take in raw inputs and through some sort of process create a finished output, which to me is clearer than the shop metaphor. Image Factory also give me the impression that the finished product I'm making with the software will be more valuable than what I import into it, the idea that I'm creating value by using the software.

Overall though, love the idea of changing the name, thanks team for bringing more inclusive language to our OSS image editing software.

[dreamer]

Just joining the discussion - I really want this project to succeed. I will just clarify, that I am firmly in camp "I don't care" about Gimp name - I am not a native English speaker and I associate this word with a piece of software first.

But I think soft-fork with the intention of some more radical changes in the future is a good idea - even just to prove that "just fork it" is a valid strategy of resolving issues like this - as long as the project won't be abandoned and it does not make unnecessary problems with merging the changes back upstream.

With this out of the way: I think Glimpse is a terrible name, sorry. Naming is hard and it easily devolves into bike-shedding, so I understand some opposition to changing it again, but the sooner it happens the easier it will be to execute. My objections are:

• There's other piece of software, on GitHub, named Glimpse. I just tried to find this project through Google this morning and was utterly confused.
• Glimpse gives misleading vibe about intention of the software (as in something, that should be used briefly)

Recently, I faced similar counondrum and resolved it naming the project for famous female game designer - a move, which was very warmly received by Linux gaming community. How about naming this project for a famous painter or maybe graphic designer? How about Tamara?

[chaomodus]

Recently, I faced similar counondrum and resolved it naming the project for famous female game designer - a move, which was very warmly received by Linux gaming community. How about naming this project for a famous painter or maybe graphic designer? How about Tamara?

As I said above I'm enamored at this point with Glimpse as a name, but this is by far the most compelling suggestion that we've gotten in this issue to me.

Alternate suggestions based on this idea:

frida (after Frida Kahlo) - this is nice because it is almost a pun also? free-digital-art :)
graciela or inturbide (after Graciela Inturbide) - I like this one because she is one of my fav photographers.
okeefe (after Georgia O'Keefe)

[BrainBlasted]

I'm also partial to keeping Glimpse, as we now lots of publicity, a domain name, and a decent momentum going. I feel like we could lose that if people look for Glimpse and find something else. Unlike the GNU Image Manipulation Program, we're unlikely to have as many publications cover a rename and it would be harder to redirect people to the new project.

That said, I do like the idea of Frida.

[LunaTheFoxgirl]

I think Frida sounds too close to Krita, atleast with a danish accent.

[TrechNex]

The other problem with using real peoples' names is that you need their permission first or you open yourself up to being sued.

[dreamer]

People's names are not trademarks… It is common to name things for famous people, especially deceased famous people.

I like Frida name as well - having an optional pun is a bonus, but there's already Frida.

[TrechNex]

By "being sued" I mean that some famous types would take their name being used as us using their celebrity to promote a project they have not agreed to endorse.

We could put a disclaimer in to try and mitigate this, but it's definitely grey legal waters we would be treading.

[justinhhorner]

I like the name Glimpse; it's simple, easy to remember, and in my experience, it wasn't difficult to find the project.

My reasons for continuing with the name mirrors what @Member1221 said. I don't believe the name will be taken so literally that a rename is warranted considering the project is already gaining recognition. Also, I like the idea of setting the launcher name to "Glimpse Image Editor." 👍

[buzztiaan]

just rename it back to gimp and stop being a prudish twat

[LunaTheFoxgirl]

Please refer to #96
In other words: please direct any naming suggestions containing “GIMP” to /dev/null

[ryliejamesthomas]

The tricky thing about names is that they need time to settle--good ones don't necessarily sound right at first. I've come to really like Glimpse!

Like @justinhhorner wrote, I like the rhythm and almost-aliteration of saying 'Glimpse Image Editor'.

I tried comign up with some alternate suggestions--

• Photo Fix
• Image Fix
• ...

--but kinda lost interest 'cause Glimpse is nice :)

[EndrII]

@ryliejamesthomas can change fix to mix?

• PhotoMix (or PhotoMixer )
• ImageMix (or ImageMixer )

[esyede]

From the lunduke show: "The GIMP" has been forked by folks who find the name offensive

[LunaTheFoxgirl]

From the lunduke show: "The GIMP" has been forked by folks who find the name offensive

We have seen the video, hence why this thread was reopened.

[henklaak]

Still 4917 occurences of the word 'gimp' in the codebase.
Somebody should offer up their weekend to fix this.

[LunaTheFoxgirl]

@henklaak that can be tracked at the following issues: #7 #6
I intend on using a tool im making for the purpose.

Though right now, the thing we are most concerned about is what the user can see.

[BrainBlasted]

Those will be replaced in the hard fork stage, where we can begin making major changes to the codebase. Right now for the sake of easy rebases we're only worried about the strings.

[dxf]

The amount of press Glimpse has had under its current name leads me to disagree. For the sake of the project, my vote is no, we shouldn't.

[ChameleonScales]

@dxf this has little to do with the new name being Glimpse specifically and if we give it a better name, you really won't have to worry about the press coverage, believe me.

[TrechNex]

To update, the feedback we've been getting from the fediverse and Matrix chat over the last few days has been overwhelmingly positive for the "Glimpse" name, so the mixed reception on Twitter is something of an anomaly for now. 😅

We will keep this issue open for the discussion to continue. I think the argument that the press coverage we've now received affects our decision also has merit.

[dreamer]

I don't think reception from Matrix chat is representative - only a fraction of people interested in the topic had a chance to express their opinion. This discussion seems like project leadership is trying to justify NOT changing the name at all costs. There are multiple different software projects named Glimpse already (1, 2, 3, 4 - I bet I could find more if I Googled more than 30s) - this is really bad name from POV of marketing and building community.

[LunaTheFoxgirl]

I don't think reception from Matrix chat is representative - only a fraction of people interested in the topic had a chance to express their opinion. This discussion seems like project leadership is trying to justifying NOT changing the name at all costs. There are multiple different software projects named Glimpse already (1, 2, 3, 4 - I bet I could find more if I Googled more than 30s) - this is really bad name form POV of marketing and building community.

Yeah, we do have a preference for the name. There's plans to have an other vote for the name via twitter & mastodon in a few days (just so suggestions can have a chance to be suggested.) But the naming is more over in bob's hands than mine tbh. I guess we'll see what happens.

Our preference is probably rooted in the fact that we've called the project by that name for little over a month at this point, so it has probably grown on us maintainers.

[Forge36]

When I heard the name was changing I was worried at first. Glimpse is very close to the existing name. I found the article written as if I should be angry. I think this could beer pulled off with good communication, perhaps what we can contribute to GIMP is a good branding interface to make it easier to change the name with configuration. If we can get that pushed upstream maintenance on a name fork should be much easier.

[drakonstudio]

Throwing in my .02 for naming after a famous painter.

• Rembrandt
• Miró
• Renoir

[ryliejamesthomas]

@ryliejamesthomas can change fix to mix?

* PhotoMix (or PhotoMixer )

* ImageMix (or ImageMixer )

@EndrII PictureMixer if you like tongue-twisters:)

[TrechNex]

@dreamer to give you a quick primer on how Glimpse project governs itself:

3 people are in the "governing team". Those 3 people must agree to a course of action or change before it can be enacted. If there is no consensus then we have to keep talking until we either drop it, reach a compromise or one of us backs down and abstains.

The Matrix chat is the forum where our decisions are made. This is where our contributors and interested end users offer their opinions and domain-specific knowledge while the governing team discusses issues that have been raised either by them or by others in the Matrix chat out in the open.

The polls we occasionally offer to our social media followers are intended as "litmus tests" to determine which choices the wider community supports when we are finding it difficult to reach a decision. This doesn't necessarily mean that the most popular choice will win, but it allows us to discount other choices.

This issue is an example of us "crowdsourcing" some idea generation from the wider community for the first time. What my comment was meant to communicate was the current "lie of the land" so people are aware that their suggestions are being considered.

[TrechNex]

Also a friendly reminder that posting off-topic/spam comments in this thread will lead to them being deleted, and if moderation becomes a burden then this thread will be locked.

Thank you to everyone who has been constructive and offered ideas so far. 😃

[atom0s]

Not trolling or trying to be 'edgy'. I am legally blind in my right eye. The name GIMP never bothered me because it's nothing more than a name to a piece of software along with the fact it is an acronym and not even connected to the slur. If I were to weigh the level of 'offense' between GIMP and Glimpse, I'd say Glimpse is more offensive in my case.

Personally, I don't care what the software is named as long as it works and it's good. People are so concerned with being SJW's for other people it becomes a total joke/meme. The majority of the people that got upset with the GIMP name in the original thread are not even disabled but feel the need to feel offended for other people. (As someone who is disabled, please stop...)

I'd suggest a new name either way from GIMP/Glimpse and be entirely unrelated to something physical, 'Photoshop' works great because it focuses on the target (a photo) and being a 'workshop' of sorts for developers. I have no good ideas to suggest but I would encourage that route of thinking instead.

"Im offended by this, im offended by that ....im offended by everything in this world." Generation of "whining and victims" cry some more you spineless cry babies.

You do realize this entire subject, fork, and discussion are all because a group of people were upset with the original projects name right? This fork exists because of the same thing you are complaining about.

Also a friendly reminder that posting off-topic/spam comments in this thread will lead to them being deleted, and if moderation becomes a burden then this thread will be locked.

While I agree with removing of trolls and off-topic stuff, I would caution to not get too hastey with removing comments that you personally don't agree with or feel are spam/trolling. A previous post regarding someone being colorblind and offended by the name could very well be legit. Kind of unfair to hide their voice/input when this entire fork started because people were unhappy with 'GIMP' and wanted their voices heard.

[TrechNex]

Thank you for your feedback re: moderation policy. :)

The individual you cite had previously posted a spam issue, so it was a judgement call on whether we should give them the benefit of the doubt or not. As you might imagine because of all the press attention we've had over the past week, keeping our communications channels and issues well-moderated this week has been a challenge for the three of us doing it across different time zones.

[BrainBlasted]

People are so concerned with being SJW's for other people it becomes a total joke/meme. The majority of the people that got upset with the GIMP name in the original thread are not even disabled but feel the need to feel offended for other people.

You're making some assumptions here that ignore half of why the issue was raised. They're also incorrect. I - the person who created the issue - have a disability. Not the sort that got me called a "gimp", but I have been called other slurs. So when I saw my friends discussing the "gimp" name and how it harms them, I was able to empathize and take action. It's also not fair to assume that others in that thread did not have a disability just because they did not clearly state it.

In addition, your statement ignores the argument about marketability to organizations and schools.

[LiamDawe]

Just stick with Glimpse. It sounds good and you're never going to please everyone.

[kreha1]

Hey, how about simply calling it "Imagine"? Afaik there's no program with that name.

It's simple, yet kinda catchy... The name Photoshop came from combining _photo_ and _workshop_, and makes you think about tinkering with your photos, and so the name Imagine encapsulates what this software allows you to do. More precisely, it tells you to what you need to do to then translate an idea to a digital canvas. This would also help with its marketing... as Imagine makes you think colours, and colourful pictures is what grabs people's attention. It still works with an eye (logo), as we imagine things with our mind's eye. Simple is good.

I also think that when looking for a name, we should think about it being part of a suite of programs (like in Adobe products). For the success of FOSS we need to avoid repetition and distribute our efforts (learning from the success of proprietary software). We should also find a name for the suite itself and establish a collaboration between other FOSS projects like Inkscape and Krita. GNU is a weak name itself, as it's "you see, it's an acronym AND an animal! isn't that clever?"... but it's not clever unfortunately.

We could reverse engineer the naming scheme in Adobe's products line and come up with something, but... maybe later.

The point is, when someone wants to use FOSS, they shouldn't have to look for it, and nothing makes you aware of the existence of products as good as a brand.

As for some other names that in my mind have potential, then maybe insight, re:vision (especially if it were to be rewritten in rust :), though it makes you think of github xD). Could also be something even more simple like reimage :).

Glimpse is a terrible name marketing wise... and you are dooming your efforts if you stick with that name. I know it sounds harsh, but you need to dream about something bigger... a bigger success than GIMP's... otherwise it utterly pointless.

[BrainBlasted]

I like your name suggestions, but I do not think creating a suite is required. Blender is not part of a suite, yet it is very successful. Upstream is not part of a suite either. Considering the wildly varying preferences for technologies and UX between different FOSS projects, it would be very difficult to form a suite out of them. To say that we will create a suite of professional-grade apps, including overhauling 20 years of work on just one, is to make claims I don't think we can reasonably meet without lots of workers and lots of funding.

[kreha1]

@BrainBlasted You are right about Blender not being a part of a suite and I don't believe that creating a suite would directly contribute to success either... It took Blender Foundation many years to get where are they now with Blender... and now they can think about creating a suite - this is that point in time. What in my mind is crucial now, is to act more like one organism and organize itself (a FOSS community) more efficiently.

So it's not like we should change everything everywhere because it would be much easier to start from zero - look at Affinity product line. There just needs to be some line of communication established, when multiple projects could together agree (or disagree) on where they want to move on with their projects.

For example, just like GIMP, Inkscape also needs a redesign. If that happens, wouldn't it be nice if their new UI and this fork's new UI matched? Like they are... compatible? Coherent menus across multiple projects which embody certain, previously agreed on design paradigm?

As for the Blender Foundation... now that they have resources, they could act as curators for other projects... How otherwise are we going to create a FOSS ecosystem if we don't act as one?

[RodneyEbanks]

Wanting terribly to be that guy, Glimpse is ableist and not inclusive of the vision impaired.

Perhaps use GIMP with a soft G and silent P?

[LunaTheFoxgirl]

@RodneyEbanks https://github.com/glimpse-editor/Glimpse/issues/92#issuecomment-525739211

[LunaTheFoxgirl]

@kreha1 Okay so, it's a very noble idea. But I really don't think at current time it is possible for such projects to cooperate effectively. Mainly because people have different ideas on how apps and such should be developed and function. And multiple levels of decisions in between projects to keep it consistent would lead to much slower development.

[kreha1]

Well, this is not the topic of the discussion, so I don't think we should focus on it that much... It'd still say that it's good to look into some possible future and see how things might look then. It's better to consider this eventuality even if it doesn't bear any fruit than to be later in a situation when it's hard to move further with marketing and brand awareness :). This collaboration effort would mostly require time, and not much money, so there's no merit in thinking about it more, than just throwing this idea into the aether :).

What's important though, is to make a good decision before it's too late. It's not wise to buy cheap stuff that will break after few months of use, and so is choosing a name that clearly doesn't feel right with many people. This would be simply repeating mistakes of GIMP - even if GIMP didn't have negative connotation, people would still want to change its name. At least that's what I think (as a non-native speaker, I had no idea about gimp meaning anything actually and still didn't like the name :))

[BitTim]

I personally think that Glimpse is a nice name, but i have noticed, that at least in the AUR already a package named glimpse exists, I don't know if it is a big problem, but I wanted to paint that out (https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?K=glimpse)

[LunaTheFoxgirl]

@BitTim solution is p simple there, just call our package "glimpse-editor"

[BitTim]

Whoops, haven't noticed that this is a solution that simple 😅. Then I'd just say stick with Glimpse

[kreha1]

What I propose is to set up a poll on project's website to get some data. This is to be platform agnostic - not everyone uses twitter, or reddit, or matrix, or discord etc but use those platforms to send the link. Take all ideas from this thread and other places where people discussed this topic and let people vote blindly (shuffle the order of options). Don't let people know the results until a certain date and don't put current name as an option. Then create a new poll with just the winner and the current name.

This way we can eliminate naysayers and still let them decide. I know there are many people here that simply got accustomed to the name, as well as people who genuinely like it. But let's get more concrete and scientific. Engage whole community, make them care about it and decide together. Not listening to the community is the reason many people hate GNOME 3, so let's learn from their mistakes. It's not that hard.

It would be wise to make it an official contest, set due date and wait. There needs to be some sort of curation so that names similar to GIMP > /dev/null

[Salamandar]

Did you know that "Gnome" is an insult in french ? Are you planning on renaming it too ?

[kreha1]

And GIMP has Imp in it, which acts as an insult too :). @Salamandar GIMP is a bad name (not talking about the meaning), it simply is. Rebranding happens everywhere - the name carries the product, not the other way around. And this is as far GIMP can go unfortunately.

[Salamandar]

That's your opinion. I think it's a great name. And more importantly, it's well-known. Everywhere in the world outside US this rebranding is meaningless.

[Salamandar]

Did you know that "Glimpse" has "Imp" in it too ?

[kreha1]

@Salamandar that Imp bit was a joke - I'm not advocating for a name change because of this. Have you even read what I've written previously? I don't like currently proposed name because imo it just is bad (marketing-wise). I'm not living in the US, so I couldn't even know that this word exists in any form, not mentioning that it is somewhat malicious.

This whole github issue is about choosing a different name than Glimpse. As for it being well-known... Of course the users know the name - they had to at least once type it in google on in the terminal, or even in dmenu / whatever they use to call a program. Is it widely known outside of this group? People working in design have probably heard of it, but couldn't care less if it's not up to the task (not following industry workflow standards and lacking key fetures).

As for the problem of name change - just look at the GIMP FAQ page.

[LunaTheFoxgirl]

So, this thread is starting to derail quite a bit. Us (the admins) will be discussing this soon (when bob gets back). We'll announce a decision after.

[zag2me]

Glimpse is a fantastic name!

[stuaxo]

This was written somewhere else:

Premier comes from movie premiers. Traktor is DJ software for dealing with tracks, playing on the fact that it was more digital and geek and tech at the time than spinning records or discs.

The name should really reflect the intent, a naming competition would be a good idea - naming is really hard, so see what people come up with.

A good name should: reflect intent (this edits images), and not be bland.

[TrechNex]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and helpful contributions.

After bouncing around all of these ideas, the name we are considering switching to is "Pixed".

This makes it obvious what our application does, and has the merit of not clashing with any other software/projects/companies/bad foreign language words as far as we can tell.

Let us know what you think. The argument that swung it for us was the sheer number of applications and companies with names that clash with our own. I'm personally not convinced of the aesthetic arguments against "Glimpse", but the practical reason for changing makes more sense to me imho.

[dreamer]

Thank you! Now there won't be a clash with other package names in Linux distributions :)

[TrechNex]

Unfortunately we found that pixed is the name of a South American social enterprise that makes prosthetics. Using the same name would obviously not be a good look for this project under the circumstances!

This issue has been re-opened for new suggestions. In due course we will provide criteria. In the meantime:

• Check your suggestion on Google. Does it clash with something else?
• Check your suggestion on Github. Has any project is clashes with been updated recently?
• Check the domain availability.

Those are the kinds of checks I'm doing, as well as trying to double-check they're not something bad in another language.

[ghost]

Photonics is the physical science of light (photon) generation, detection, and manipulation.

Photon or Photonic. The first has no takers on github, and neither seem to be used for image editing software.

I'm also going down some strange paths with thyratrons, which are an old type of electronic value/tube that glow a bright neon blue under load...

[ChameleonScales]

Shoot... Back to square 1.
Pardon my insisting but I would like to defend Liberaster just a little more

FIrst of all it checks all of the above 3 bullet points that @TrechNex enumerated.

Now to respond to the counter-arguments:
(@kindfulkirby I assume this was directed to my proposal):

I would avoid names with "Libre" or "Raster" in the name, those words mean nothing to the general public. A memorable but unspecific name (like "Glimpse") is probably more useful than a specific one most people don't know what to make of.

I think Libre Office is popular enough to have spread the knowledge of what Libre means and even if I'm wrong, "Liberaster" resembles more "liberator" (you may have mistakenly read my proposal as Libreraster which I would forgive you for). But "liberator" is an English word everyone (who speaks english) knows.

As for raster, ok, not everyone knows that it means "pixel" (to keep it simple) but maybe we could see this as an opportunity to share the knowledge?

… and now that I look at it, the silent e at the end bothers me. People whose first language is not English (and some whose it is) will probably have trouble pronouncing it?

There's no silent "e" in my proposal since it doesn't include the word "Libre" itself.

Finally, I think that apart from the meaning, "Liberaster" sounds kinda cool. Something the Power Rangers would take out to get out of difficult situations.

[ChameleonScales]

Other idea: ArtMage (inspired from ImageMagick)

It's not used on Github.
It does have a .com domain taken by a Chilean art gallery (inactive since 2005) but is that a problem?

@TrechNex

* Check the domain availability.

What must be free more precisely? .app? .com? .org? all three?

[TrechNex]

What must be free more precisely? .app? .com? .org? all three?

What I mean here is that the usual suspects don't have similar products on your name's common domain TLDs.

Also if we need to come up with a domain for the term it is a good way of determine just how much work we will have to do to find one that doesn't clash. A problem we're having to work around now is getglimpse.com vs getglimpse.app (we're going to switch to glimpse-editor.org from tomorrow)

[omicron-b]

@ChameleonScales sorry, but Liberaster is very, very close to an offensive slang.

[dwkretz]

I may be missing some pitfalls with this one, but "Luua" is an Estonian word that translates to "create" in English (at least according to google). Subjectively I think the word looks and sounds nice. Plus it's short and unique

[kcthrn]

How about Imagery?

Definitions from Wiktionary

Noun

imagery

1. The work of one who makes images or visible representation of objects.
2. Imitation work.
3. Images in general, or en masse.
4. (figuratively) Unreal show; imitation; appearance.
5. The work of the imagination or fancy; false ideas; imaginary phantasms.
6. Rhetorical decoration in writing or speaking; vivid descriptions presenting or suggesting images of sensible objects; figures in discourse.

[kcthrn]

Regarding the word Imagery, I couldn't find any company on Google with that name (closest was "Imagry", nor any software.

I think the definition perfectly fits the utility and purpose of the software.

BTW: I thought Pixed was good, but if a company with that name does not produce software then why still drop Pixed? I thought trademark issues occur only with competing products within the same domain?

[ChameleonScales]

@m-svo Shoot. Ok we definitely don't want that one.

[AwesamLinux]

I recommend to search every suggested name on download.com (or any similar software indexing site). And then also making a US and EU trademark search.

US trademark search:
https://www.uspto.gov/trademark
(click on search TESS and then basic word mark search)

EU trademark search:
https://euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/

Out of the suggestions so far I think I like the name Imagery the most. So lets see there appears to be some old software last updated ca 1998 that goes by the name "Imagery" (http://www.vargr.com/imagery/imagery.html).

The word Imagery is currently trademarked in US and EU. But by completely different industries (metal construction and Winery). The last time it was trademarked by a computer software company looks to have been 2002.

:thinking: just to throw out a similar naming suggestion: Imagerie

Imagerie is the French word for imagery, think it kinda has a nicer sound to it. Imagerie has no trademarks in EU or US, or similar existing software. Though there are github repositories with the name.

[ChameleonScales]

@kcthrn Searching for "Imagery" on Github returns 2253 repositories. As for "Imagerie", 92. Also my personal view on existing words is that we should at least change one letter to make it easier for web searches. It doesn't have to change the pronunciation though. Could be "Imajery" for example. This one returns zero result on Github. However there is a Canadian web design company with that name using a .com domain. Not sure if it's problematic or not.

[AwesamLinux]

@ChameleonScales yea that is a good point, using existing words makes it difficult to find on search engines. Until the software gets very popular like Blender, but until then visibility would be poor.

With existing words it is very difficult not to trespass or sound like any pre-existing software names or trademark. Unless you chain together words like for example PhotoImagery (but even then it is difficult to come up with something truly unique).

I think the idea of using a famous painters name as suggested by @dreamer, is also worth considering. That should in most cases not be a legal problem because the copyrights expired (but that needs to be checked to make sure). I know there are commercial software like that include art from famous artists, so I think it is a possible option.

I personally think it would be pretty neat if the application would be just called a painters name like "Leonora" (after Leonora Carrington). And if some of the actual painting may be even used for backdrops to welcome/splash/about screens.

Now the downside would be the search engine results. But a tribute to a famous artist could possibly also gain positive marketing/press to off-set that. Also the application could be officially called something like "Leonora Studio", "Leonora Photo Editor" or something like that to make it easier to find.

Another thing to consider is names of famous photographers, that might even be more fitting for an application that I guess most use for photo editing. For example "Dorothea" (Dorothea Lange).

[ChameleonScales]

About the "Famous painter name" idea:

I think we should instead pick a famous photographer. Krita is the king of painting, GIMP is the king of photo manipulation. I know some will disagree with this but looking at what artists pick, that's a statistical fact.
Personally I know less than a handful of famous photographers and generally speaking I'm sure people know more painters than photographers but I see this as an opportunity to get people to discover one.

[dreamer]

@AwesamLinux famous artists idea was suggested by me :P - my initial suggestion was Tamara for Tamara Łempicka.

If most people associate upstream project with photo manipulation, then picking a photographer might be more appropriate, my initial suggestion would be Vivian.

[TrechNex]

I we go the artist route I vote in favour of Andy Warhol! He was well known for digital art, and was even part of the launch for the Commodore Amiga.

Would need to check the legal stuff first though. But saying "I edited this image with Warhol" would be cool. 😄

[LunaTheFoxgirl]

Again, it'd require people to know who that is to actually be useful as a name. And i'm p sure that a large portion of our userbase have no idea who that is lol

[AwesamLinux]

@AwesamLinux famous artists idea was suggested by me :P - my initial suggestion was Tamara for Tamara Łempicka.

If most people associate upstream project with photo manipulation, then picking a photographer might be more appropriate, my initial suggestion would be Vivian.

Dreamer, I'm sorry the lack of sleep made the thread hard to follow :sweat_smile:

Again, it'd require people to know who that is to actually be useful as a name. And i'm p sure that a large portion of our userbase have no idea who that is lol

It would definitely be preferable if using a photographers name, it would be someone people immediately recognizeable. Unfortunately, I don't think there has been any photographer famous enough to everyone. Not sure though if that is necessary when building up a brand from scratch.

I we go the artist route I vote in favour of Andy Warhol! He was well known for digital art, and was even part of the launch for the Commodore Amiga.

Amiga you say... "Deluxe PhotoEditor" has a nice retro vibe to it :wink:

[kcthrn]

I don't think it is necessary that the artist or photographer be well known, so long as the final name sounds good. That gives an opportunity for users to learn more about the artist/photographer if they care enough to do so, but the software would have to give a hint as to the origin of the name of the software, which could be in an about page or documentation as a "tidbit" or bit of "interesting but useless" information.

[ryliejamesthomas]

Hey, I feel pretty strongly that's taking an artist's name without their permission is really not okay. You're taking a person and turning them into a brand.

I know it's meant as a tribute, but without permission, and without any connection to the artist, I am not okay with this.

(edited to add a comma)

[kcthrn]

How about: Gimagerie = GIMP + Imagerie

Runners up: Rastery or Rasterie

[ChameleonScales]

@ryliejamesthomas I agree, we have to ask for permission for sure.
And + 10 for precising you added a comma 😄

[stefangrotz]

Glimpse is a great name, if you can't keep it theese are my suggetions:

• Pikselo (pixel in Esperanto)
• Another Photo Editor APE
• Gander (a synonym of glimpse, don't know how this sounds to a native english speaker)

[chaomodus]

Glimpse is a great name, if you can't keep it theese are my suggetions:
* Gander (a synonym of glimpse, don't know how this sounds to a native english speaker)

I legit love Gander particularly because it's a pun, and can mean glimpse or it can mean a goose, which makes iconography straight forward.

[stuaxo]

Sure, though Gander is still about looking rather than images and their creation, paintings or photography.

[TrechNex]

My response to the "exclude names because they sound like viewers instead of editors" thing is: what is the main thing you do with pictures and works of art? 🤔

I like Gander, but we've already been beaten to it by DuckDuckGo. Choosing it would clearly be quackers, but it's all water off a duck's back. What's good for the goose though... 😂

[LunaTheFoxgirl]

@TrechNex you are banned from making puns for a million years

[ChameleonScales]

@stefangrotz You've got my +100 for Pikselo. It's cute, but mostly it's Esperanto, the "FOSS" of languages, which goal was to bring peace by vanishing incomprehensions and the conflicts and disputes that arise from them.
You know, just a nice story, nothing to relate with... ahem...

[LunaTheFoxgirl]

@ChameleonScales bad idea, Pik = penis in danish. (or well, the much ruder slang for it)

[kcthrn]

Maybe we should just ditch words altogether and use numbers and symbols. No 420 or 69 though.

[kcthrn]

I like Pikselo.

Picselo, Pixelo, Pixselo if it isn't already taken?

[ChameleonScales]

@Member1221 Ok now that's 3 letters. Shouldn't we draw the line somewhere?
I mean of course it depends on how much this "pik" word is used in Germany and whether the connection when hearing "Pikselo" is inevitable or not, but we can't just avoid all possible words containing any slur or insult of any lentgh in any language. Besides, Pikselo is already a word in some other language, so you can't hold that language responsible, unlike the GIMP which was an acronym made up knowing full well what it meant.

[LunaTheFoxgirl]

@ChameleonScales of course, though that one kinda stands out to me, maybe because google named their OSS image format "pik"

[ChameleonScales]

I imagine that thinking "pik" when you read "pikselo" means you make the separation between "pik" and "selo" in your head. If "selo" doesn't mean anything, it seems unlikely to make that separation spontaneously. Maybe that's a false assumption though. Just a thought from personal experience.

[LunaTheFoxgirl]

maybe it's just danish culture

[ryliejamesthomas]

@ChameleonScales Well if it was dickselo I don't think we'd be considering it, ya know ;) The separation happens if you are familiar with the word.

[BlackOutLAN]

Photo & Image Extensible Rasterizer
aka
Pier, like you'd find on a beach. You can even call the extensions with additional tools and pallets "decks" if you wanna go that rout.
Or, if someone can come up with a way to get another 'R' and an 'E' on the end, we now have Pierre, a stereotypical name for a french painter that is more cartoonish/comical/on the nose than it will ever be offensive, complete with icon of a guy with the beret hat, monocle, pointy mustache, and scarf as a possibility for branding. Do I win? At least now the name won't look like it belongs as a profile tag on Fetlife.

[ChameleonScales]

@ryliejamesthomas that's 4 letters though. Anyway,again I'm not German so my input is of little value here.

[ChameleonScales]

@BlackOutLAN GIMP is not really a rasterizer. Raster image editor and rasterizer are different things.

[TrechNex]

Also a friendly reminder that the idea users will automatically link a word about seeing to "peeping toms" is quite a stretch and can sometimes lead us to discount your idea on the grounds we do not think it has been provided in good faith.

The people to blame on that one are bad faith actors who have been using our comms channels to voice their distaste for this fork existing in the first place and wasting our moderators' time with failed attempts to disrupt or derail the day-to-day running of the project. Said idea is one of their favourite nonsense criticisms because it sounds just vaguely plausible enough for people to take the bait and waste time trying to debunk it.

[BlackOutLAN]

@BlackOutLAN GIMP is not really a rasterizer. Raster image editor and rasterizer are different things.

Well, @ChameleonScales, in all fairness, I'm not exactly a photo editing or coding expert; just wanted to offer my input, trying to be helpful. That was the only useful idea I had, so if it inspires a better one or is somehow useful, good. If not, well, I tried. Anyway, best of luck to everyone working with and contributing to this fork project. I'll more than likely download it, once it becomes feasible for daily use.

[mnmlgirl]

So, the only ones that will actually appeal to people imo, and not just free software elitists and zealots (and also not affiliate the code with GNU) are:

Vibrancy
Insight
Photon
Pastel

My 0.02USD is _DayDream_ To imply that you are imagining some this else other than what you are looking at in the editor.

[bingodv]

I think what makes a good name is just being short and memorable, it doesn't necessarily need to reflect the product with 100% accuracy.

Maybe something just as simple as Hue?

[mnmlgirl]

I really like that name naikswag

[Pentasis]

Someone mentioned the Amiga (known for its graphics back in the day), so why not swap two letters and name it _Imago_? Which could stand for Image alterer gimp overhaul. Or Image overhaul(er). Or something to that effect.

[ryliejamesthomas]

('Imago' is Latin for 'image', I'm pretty sure)

[dave559]

I am pleased to see people doing something about the project name: the embarrassing nature of the full acronym/name of the original IMP program does cause genuine problems when trying to get it accepted and deployed in workplace environments, or when recommending it to (at least some) friends, which is very unfortunate given the undeniable quality and usefulness of the program.

Yes, there is a great tradition of punnery in the software world (elm, pine, balsa, etc), but we have to acknowledge that some puns and names work better than others when considering a wide and diverse audience.

My suggestion, for what it's worth:

• Glimmer

(suggests light, a sparkle, shining, enhancing your artwork, has a nod to the original name, and has an "echo" of image/imagery in it?)

(There is apparently a program GLIMMER, but in a completely unrelated field, so I doubt this would cause any confusion.)

[kcthrn]

Fotomancy

The school of magic that deals with the study and application of photo manipulation.

[abanoub-hanna]

I think Image Studio is great.

[superuser-does]

I must agree with the criticisms that the name "Glimpse" is poor for search engine optimization (SEO). It's a nice name but the first word is what people will remember and look for, and it's unlikely that Glimpse can overtake the general use of the word in search engines. Glimpse - let's call it that for now, needs users first and foremost to thrive. They in turn will drive contribution to the project. This is the absolutely most pivotal question facing the project, and it's of course one that's tied directly to why the project was founded.

---

A great name for a serious, professional-grade piece of software like this should also explain exactly what it does. I agree _Image Studio_ and _Picture Studio_ would be good, as no-one would ever say only the first part of their names, and they perfectly describe what they do. I personally lean on the latter, as "Image" is more of a computing term.

I wouldn't recommend adding another word (e.g. _Digital Image Studio_), as by that point people would begin abbreviating (_DIS_, etc) and hurt long-term prospects.

I would recommend making it easy for English speakers, who form a plurality of users, which is why I recommended English words, and further recommend it's based on an English-language word for the same reason- or at least one that's easy to memorize.

In addition, I would encourage you to make that same term easy for non-native English speakers to remember. The rule of thumb is to use globally known terms like "studio", limit the number of syllables and complex consonants (_gh_ as one example, which is difficult to remember. Further Up there was _Phl_, which would be difficult even for English speakers. Please also consider dyslexia). There's more than that. but these are basic rules all should follow.

Finally, I want to specifically recommend against the use of the word "photo" or variations thereof, as they misrepresent the real scope of the software. PhotoShop is excellent for art and can do a lot more than image editing. It's been severely harmed by its association with photo editing, which is a shame as Adobe has invested a lot of effort into making it great for digital artists and other users. To a lesser degree, I recommend against the use of "editor" for the same reason. You can do a lot more than just edit, and the name shouldn't go against it.

With all the wording suggestions out of the way, I'll make a final one: a lot of people want to have clever puns or wordplay. Let me warn you it will fall flat unless you can make a logo that straightforwardly shows the meaning, Linked to this is that along with a great name must come a memorable logo. Bear this in mind while making the decision.

---

I hope my insight (based on direct experience) has helped. It's difficult, but worth undergoing. I would strongly suggest you revise the name before going public. I will also note that there have been multiple good-faith calls (like this one :-) ) requesting that the name is changed, and it would be right to thoroughly explore this request from interested parties such as ourselves. I sincerely hope this is up for serious consideration and not going to be ignored like the same demand was for the project you forked from.

[TrechNex]

Thank you for your in-depth analysis @superuser-does. You are clearly passionate about this topic.

For background, after a video by a certain Mr Bryan Lunduke we spent well over a week and a half literally talking about nothing else but the project's name every single day. Making it a blocking issue paralysed all other decision-making! Points of contention were a) how impactful the criticisms actually were, and b) what the new name should be.

In the end there was no firm agreed answer to either of those questions. The only way for the project to proceed was to agree to the idea of Glimpse being a "code name" for now, with the idea that it would be replaced by a "better" name only if one could be found before we hard fork next year, and if not then the matter would be considered resolved. (We did however take criticism about the domain name on board, so that was changed to make it less confusing).

This Github issue has been left in place so people can elaborate on their concerns and provide suggested alternatives, so that next time this decision is revisited (probably some time after 0.1 releases) it can feed in to those discussions. For reference: https://glimpse-editor.org/about/#how-does-this-project-govern-itself

[kruug]

Reasons for why the Glimpse name should stay:

"I don't think people should get too hung up on the definition"

"I personally like the name Glimpse and think it’s english meaning shouldn’t be taken too literal."

Yet, the whole point of this fork was because people were getting hung up on the meaning of the word...

[timonsku]

As an outsider who just hears about this from the sidelines, I think the name is great and gives me a much better association to an image editing software than GIMP does.
Also super generic names like "Image Studio" and "Picture Studio" are really really bad for search engines, there are a ton of products containing these two words, it will be a lot harder for people to search for this project than it is with Glimpse.

Yes it collides with an existing word but the important part is that the meaning of the word does not collide with the usage of the software, otherwise you get off topic results.
Searching for "Issue with opening file in Glimpse" will most certainly give you results about the software and not about "glimpsing at files".

Also the fact that its about doing something rather than a thing increases searchability a lot, all you get right now are definitions of the word over and over, it would be very easy to stand out as a product.

It is also not important that you get the first result when people search for just "Glimpse", if they search for that they already know the software exists in the first place. If they just want to find the projects website adding any other related keyword like "editor" "tool" or "program" will definitely get you to the website as long as there is no other popular project with the same name, "Glimpse download" will 100% give you the project website, which is what people will search for if they wanna download Glimpse.

Apart from that, its a creative name, sounds nice and is easy to pronounce (English is not my native language, yes the silent e is a bit weird but most languages don't have trouble saying 'Glimps', so who cares if some spell out the 'e', Glimpsy sounds cute).

Most importantly it REALLY doesn't matter that this name doesn't perfectly reflect the software's use. This discussion really feels way more like programmers trying to find the perfect function name that exactly tells you what the function does.
That's really not important for a piece of software that is used by end users and not other programmers like a library.
It just has to sound nice and have the ability to build a brand around it, if its even slightly related to its use.. great!
I don't think Apple chose their name because its so related to computers...

Whoever came up with 'Glimpse', great name!

[lorendias]

As a Photoshop user of 20 years and designer & industry professional, designing Logos, branding, naming, etc... the input offered by @superuser-does is very spot on.

Highlights I read in the whole thread above:
@abanoub-hanna -- I think Image Studio is great.
@superuser-does -- I must agree with the criticisms that the name "Glimpse" is poor for search engine optimization (SEO).
@superuser-does -- the first part of their names, and they perfectly describe what they do.
@superuser-does -- Finally, I want to specifically recommend against the use of the word "photo" or variations thereof, as they misrepresent the real scope of the software.
@superuser-does -- To a lesser degree, I recommend against the use of "editor" for the same reason.
@TrechNex -- The only way for the project to proceed was to agree to the idea of Glimpse being a "code name"

• I strongly recommend against acronyms and the inclusion of prefix GNU for reasons listed above: It's inappropriate to associate with a project without permission and GIMP already exists -- the official GNU image editor. Also, as of late, it's a bad time to associate a project with R.M.S. which is a expansive topic for another discussion not here.

• "Photo" is an inappropriate description of what Photo Shop does

• "Shop" implies and is limited to a sort of "Print Shop"

• By 2019 Standards their name is poorly chosen.

• "Image" is the clear winner as it has no such limits and can mean Photo, Bitmap which is Raster, or Vector -- all of which I think are part of the App's scope of function

• "Studio" is more commonly associated with Painters and Artists, which is better than shop

• "Factory" is my favorite, because it implies that there there are specific tools and a process to enhance an Image.

Thus my favorite name is: ImageFactory

It says what it does and correlates nicely to the visual communication that Glimpse (codename) is a tool to layer images or effects to "Remaster", "Redux" process an image.

That said -- that name is a "Thinker Name" an engineer might choose, the style of the name should reflect the project and leaders itself -- it will either have a Engineer Thinker Style, or Intuiter Artistic Creative Style.

Personally I think the creative options are not as befitting because they are more associated with "art" which is only one component, one color of the Spectrum of what the App does if you will.

Lastly, I am the owner of an intuiter 6 letter intuiter style domain name, it has little to no SEO competition -- Ensuna.com -- I have been saving for something special. I might be willing to donate it to the project if leadership is interested. DM me if interested

Here is a old sketch of my vision of what those letters might look like

Also, an old splash screen showing ImageFactory in stark letters I made when I themed the editor to fit the professional counterparts.

I built a theme called Stardust for GIMP GTK3 2.99 which is unreleased and has been serving me well and fits in at work.

[timonsku]

@lorendias you talk about poor search engine optimization but have you even googled "ImageFactory"? The first result is an "image manipulation software" the next couple results are for several different pieces of software and a couple of companies. Generic names like these are a really bad choice because it guarantees that you will overlap with other software, in this case even with software with a very similar purpose.

[lorendias]

@PTS93 Every project, product, every business has to numerically order their priorities when optimizing a goal.

In the case of my suggestion that order looks like:

1. Communicates What It Does
2. Not Confusing with other products, or projects
3. Easy to Enunciate
4. Not too many syllables
5. SEO

Leadership has to "Pick your poison", if you put SEO as #1 in that list you will get a product and domain name like:
www.Digital-Photo-Image-Vector-Bitmap-Raster-Art-Manipulation-Binary.com

Obviously there is a balancing act, but I sure would put a good name above SEO any day, professionals would agree. And if too generic, companies get around this by prefixing with the company name, thus Photo Shop became Adobe Photo Shop and Photo became Affinity Photo

Surely Glimpse management could identify as (Glimpse) Image Factory or an alternative identifier if they proffered the desire to bypass such perceived restrictions.

Eg:
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell
Lara Croft: Tomb Raider
Google Photos
Google Maps
Etc...

Again I would NEVER make SEO the #1 priority during selection.

Edit: ImageFactory.app domain name is available aswell, and sometimes the domain suffix is used in branding as part of a name as a strength aswell to bypass again such "setbacks"

[kcthrn]

@lorendias Would an official name and a nickname work? For example:

Official name: Glimpse Image Factory or Glimpse Image Studio
Nickname: Glimpse

That way Glimpse would have an association to image editing in search results and still be something simple that users could refer too.

[lorendias]

@kcthrn In my opinion Glimpse Image Factory or Glimpse Image Studio would kill 5 birds with 1 stone.

1. The existing branding and name would be intact and "Image Factory/Studio" would simply replace "Editor" (which is less descriptive of what it does anyways.

2. The new name issue would be resolved.

3. It would be specific enough that it'd be distinguished in SEO

4. Shorthand could be GIF in person-to-person enunciation -- which is 1 spoken syllable -- which doubles as an image format and already has an association as computer graphics in designers & the public's brains as to what it relates to.

5. Every time someone in the industry said GIF, the designer would think about G.I.F. (free advertising) [ this is why branding make logos simple so humans mistake them for common shapes they see in the real world and think of their brand ]

There are probably a few more birds that would be killed with this "one stone" so to speak.

[ChameleonScales]

I think this discussion is really showing that Lunduke's assumption that "no good name has ever been decided by committee" is wrong. In fact I think community-driven name research is key in this situation. Some usable names have been proposed and community contributions help check the boxes on brand availability and appropriateness in all languages, most of which would be foreign to a single professional marketer, and it's come pretty clear that many people are interested in giving their 2 cents and contributing.

Now...
@TrechNex

In the end there was no firm agreed answer to either of those questions

I don't know how you're managing all these discussions and/or keeping track of votes internally but I don't think the structure of discussion threads like this makes proposal gathering, voting and box-checking practical. I'm sure many proposals have been made outside of this thread (e.g. Matrix) and most proposed names are drowned in comments and fall into oblivion very quickly.
I also don't think Mastodon/twitter polls work either because they are way too limited and constraining (and it requires voters to have an account, yuck!)
Instead I would suggest gathering proposed names, votes and other data in a shared spreadsheet (requiring no account from voters). I made an example you can look at and edit (it's made with Collabora which is an online collaborative LibreOffice clone hosted on my Nextcloud, so 100% FOSS) :
https://chameleonscales.owncube.com/index.php/s/Jaz5D5Cnx6xaeke
What do you think of the idea?

[TrechNex]

On a few of those points...

I don't know how you're managing all these discussions and/or keeping track of votes internally but I don't think the structure of discussion threads like this makes proposal gathering, voting and box-checking practical. I'm sure many proposals have been made outside of this thread (e.g. Matrix) and most proposed names are drowned in comments and fall into oblivion very quickly.

This is correct. The most support any new names seem to get is maybe 3 people, which then get drowned in other suggestions. The name that came closest was "Pixed", but even that only garnered the support of about 5 people before we found a reason not to use it.

I also don't think Mastodon/twitter polls work either because they are way too limited and constraining (and it requires voters to have an account, yuck!)

Indeed, the reason we didn't hold one was because there was no real support for the idea. When we do polls of that kind it's usually to canvas opinion in a non-binding way for an existing discussion.

Although, as it turns out Glimpse as a name did pick up dozens of votes in favour that way early on in the project. 😅

Instead I would suggest gathering proposed names, votes and other data in a shared spreadsheet (requiring no account from voters). I made an example you can look at and edit (it's made with Collabora which is an online collaborative LibreOffice clone hosted on my Nextcloud, so 100% FOSS) :
https://chameleonscales.owncube.com/index.php/s/Jaz5D5Cnx6xaeke
What do you think of the idea?

You're welcome to do it, but I suspect you will keep running into the same problem. i.e. Not everyone is convinced the name needs to change, and those that are seem to be very divided on what we should actually change the name to.

[TrechNex]

I also think it's worth mentioning that when it comes to naming a project, trying to do the usual techie thing of finding the "technically correct" answer is always going to make people come unstuck.

Names are a matter of taste, and a successful name is one that the community rallies around and feels passionately about. Before we've even pushed out our first binary release we're on $100+ a month in donations, nearly 1000 followers across two social media platforms & hundreds of people offering/discussing ideas on Matrix & Github. So on those grounds, Glimpse (even if it turns out to be short-lived) has been a successful name.

The criteria I set earlier was to ensure that a) the name actually addresses the practical concerns being raised, b) those of us within the project are happy with the identity you are assigning us & c) the new name will stand up to scrutiny so we do not end up having the same discussions on loop ad nauseum

[chee]

Glimpse is a great name.

[indrakaw]

If possible, we could rename it "The GNU Advanced iMage Editor". Or for short, THE GAME.

[ChameleonScales]

@TrechNex :

You're welcome to do it, [...]

Then I guess I should make it as easy to use as possible.
We're implementing comments from this thread in the sheet to do some of the work but I encourage anyone who has given their 2 cents (even for keeping "Glimpse") to go there and give their rating. It's quite easy to do but we can't decide for that in your place.
Here's the link again: https://chameleonscales.owncube.com/index.php/s/Jaz5D5Cnx6xaeke

[TrechNex]

To confirm I have also gone through this issue checking for votes in favour of keeping "Glimpse" and made an educated guess at rating how strongly the individual commenting feels about their view.

If you are one of the people named, feel free to edit at your own discretion. Hopefully no one malicious messes with this spreadsheet, but in any case its function would be to advise rather than bind the project.

[ChameleonScales]

@TrechNex

Hopefully no one malicious messes with this spreadsheet

I have a non-shared backup and I will update it every now and then (and possibly check the diff if something seems weird).
Also, note that anyone can download the file at any time.

[ChameleonScales]

Filtrilo : Esperanto for filter

Added to the public voting spreadsheet.
Seems to check SEO and availability boxes. As I look up Esperanto as a project and its history, the idea of using it for the name grows to me especially as a way to address an issue that applies in a specific part of the world (i.e from what I read & remember, the Gimp slur is only used in the US)
@stefangrotz What do you think?

[ryliejamesthomas]

@ChameleonScales 'Gimp' is a slur in other English-speaking countries.

[TrechNex]

@ChameleonScales 'Gimp' is a slur in other English-speaking countries.

Can confirm. I'm British and it's used here as a kind of playground insult. If you're a Red Dwarf fan you'll see them using using it liberally that way in the first few seasons (they later switched to "gimboid")

https://glimpse-editor.org/about/#what-is-wrong-with-the-gimp-name

[ChameleonScales]

@ryliejamesthomas @TrechNex ok, good to know. Doesn't change my affection for esperanto but good to know.
@kruug TrechNex and I had different viewpoints on your stand on Glimpse. Feel free to clarify on the spreadsheet.

TrechNex:

I am also of the opinion that votes against with a justification along the lines of "this project shouldn't exist in the first place" should be discounted on the grounds they are made in bad faith.

Absolutely. Feel free to put such votes outside of the range that the graph uses (e.g. on the right side) if you see any.

[jcklpe]

Might be a good idea to get some feedback from some designers at opensourcedesign.net/

[TrechNex]

To update with stats from the spreadsheet:
Keep Glimpse: 30 votes (rated 1-3 stars)
Change Glimpse: 12 votes

Most alternative suggestions have around 7 positive votes vs between 2 or 4 negative votes. The most popular choice is Imajery with 9 positive votes and 2 negative votes, but it does have some practical issues.

We will leave this issue open for a while longer, but it has been inactive for over a month now and there seems very little interest in proceeding. However, this was not a waste of time:

• We did change our domain name from getglimpse.app to glimpse-editor.org (and bought the matching .com) to make that less confusing
• "Glimpse" is also now treated as the shorthand version of "Glimpse Image Editor"
• We dedicated two weeks in August where we discussed nothing else but this issue on the Matrix chat
• We helped the OP of the issue setup a spreadsheet to canvas support and publicized it on our official project communications channels
• Even if we close this issue, it will still be available online for future reference if the issue is picked up again

Thank you to everyone so far for your suggestions and opinions. :)

Even if you feel this issue hasn't gone your way, I hope you can see that we have demonstrated that we do entertain peoples' ideas in good faith and we try to help them build a case to support it. If you want more information about how we govern ourselves and better understand how we make decisions, take a look here: https://glimpse-editor.org/about/#how-does-this-project-govern-itself

[indrakaw]

Oh. There is a spreadsheet; I didn't see that one.

Also, since it's anonymous; I doubt the voters result. Is there a better way?

[chee]

thanks, @TrechNex !

[TrechNex]

Also, since it's anonymous; I doubt the voters result. Is there a better way?

Unfortunately not @indrakaw. The votes in the spreadsheet itself have names assigned to them with comments. @ChameleonScales has a separate offline copy in case the online gets defaced, and I have been checking back on this periodically too.

We considered a social media poll, but the problem with that is it's completely anonymous and easy for people to manipulate too. So the best we could achieve was a spreadsheet to inform the discussion.

We have over 100 people following what we are doing on Matrix, and over 1000 on social media. Compare that to the 42 people who were moved to provide input on the spreadsheet, and only 12 of them wanted the name to change. (The only votes removed were those explicitly stating that they felt our project shouldn't even exist in the first place, and we did count the opinions of people in this thread)

[TrechNex]

If I'm being brutally honest, I think a lot of the fuss stirred up about this was started by one YouTuber expressing an opinion. Their devoted following applied pressure on us to act, became frustrated when we pointed out there were practical questions that needed answering first, then they lost interest.

But we can't be accused of not lavishing enough time and resources on this question. It has received more of our attention than any other issue, to the point people outside the project were joking about the irony of us (a project that wanted to change the GIMP's name) squabbling about our own name.

As I said we'll leave this issue open for now, but as someone who spent a two week vacation dealing with a huge flame war about this that could have caused this project to splinter and disintegrate instead of vacationing, I will be quite relieved when we do finally draw a line under this. 😅

[jcklpe]

Seems like ya'll should just move ahead with the project. I'm an outsider here, but I think the name sounds fine and while I understand the desire for people to discuss this issue in a democratic and consensus fashion it seems the greater obstacle is actually getting the work done and keeping momentum. People who object can always fork the project their own way right?

[TrechNex]

You make a compelling point @jcklpe :)

If people have more good faith suggestions or opinions feel free to add them as we could pick this back up again at some point in the future. We will only lock this thread if it starts to become a hassle to moderate. :+1: