Cataclysm-dda: Crafting solder from tin and lead?
I'm considering making such a realistic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder#Lead_solder) recipe, creating solder out of lead and tin cans using a hotplate (lead MP is 327掳C, tin is 232掳C) and a cooking container, do i need to know any hacky balancing decisions that would make it unsuitable for inclusion?
Also, IRL, pure tin is sometimes used as a solder (with worse mechanical properties, requiring higher temperature to solder and prone to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_pest, but much less toxic), should we have that as well?
l29ah
All 11 comments
Lead fumes are poisonous, but yes, lead can be melted on a fire (my Dad did it once). It takes a long time though for it to reach the melting point.
Zireael07
on 9 Nov 2018
It needs appropriate tooling, i.e. the wire needs to be drawn after casting for use.
Also if its being used for something so valuable, the lead source needs to be considered, is it reasonable to melt down the lead sources present in-game and make solder from them?
kevingranade
on 9 Nov 2018
the wire needs to be drawn after casting for use
Disassembling electronics produces solder w/o any such tooling, also solder blobs can be used as is IRL, although it's less comfortable in many cases.
Lead is dirt cheap: you have a lot of vehicles in game, each containing 5000 lead that is extractable with a hotplate.
l29ah
on 9 Nov 2018
Disassembling electronics produces solder w/o any such tooling.
So thats a bug to be fixed, theres even an issue open for it.
you have a lot of vehicles in game, each containing 5000 lead that is extractable with a hotplate.
The question is whether its reasonable to use that lead to make solder, I don't know the answer, it's just something I want an answer for.
kevingranade
on 9 Nov 2018
Okay, tin cans aren't such a good source of tin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_can#Materials
We have pure tin in game though, it is less accessible requiring cooking 4 and electrolysis kit (50 copper wire and 10 solder), producing 10 tin from a can.
Curiously, my current character crafting screen shows much less tin-consuming recipes in "You could use it to craft:" thing than is present in the recipe list: for instance, there's no firearm ammo whatsoever. WTF?
The question is whether its reasonable to use that lead to make solder, I don't know the answer, it's just something I want an answer for.
I don't see any problems with it.
l29ah
on 11 Nov 2018
The question is whether its reasonable to use that lead to make solder, I don't know the answer, it's just something I want an answer for.
When I was a child, I used to disassemble old car batteries, extracting electrodes, then hammered them to crack lead dioxide from the pure lead framing. Then it's possible to melt that lead frames even in the tin can over a campfire and cast an ingot in another tin can or clay/brick mold. I casted lead ingot even in wooden mold once. No special tools required other than a hammer, tin can and heat source.
I'm pretty sure that you don't need to use chemically refined lead to make usable solder. I mean, if quite dirty components are used, solder will be a little less comfortable to use than the proper alloy, but it's still usable. And you easily can use rosin gathered directly from a pine tree as a decent flux.
And of course, you don't need to form a wire to use solder. In USSR solder often used to come in ingots. You could just cut small piece with wire cutter, and use it. Easy enough. And you can use solder blobs as well.
And yes, lead fumes are poisonous, but not THAT poisonous if you melt just a piece and ventilation is fine. Solder includes a lead too, and produces fumes when melted with a solder, but not a lot people instantly died during soldering, as i know. I used to mess a lot with melting lead, and still alive for now.. at the age of 36 :)
eilaattwood
on 11 Nov 2018
Oh, I wrote about flux and now remembered a nuance. Modern manufactured solder in form on wire usually has flux core inside of it - the wire is actually thin tube of solder filled with flux. flux core solder can be theoretically used for soldering without additional flux. When using other forms of solder you need to add flux manually. Rosin is widely used as a flux for soldering, but sorts of more advanced liquid flux also exist.
eilaattwood
on 11 Nov 2018
When i was a child, i've successfuly used the pine resin collected from the surface of damaged pine trees as a soldering flux. It makes sense to use pine boughs, but we should explicitly mention that "solder" means "some form of solder and the corresponding amount of flux", and that means "solder" extraction from the existing electronics is going to become tricky.
l29ah
on 11 Nov 2018
Haha I wasn't saying the lead fumes are lethal My Dad's still alive :P
Zireael07
on 11 Nov 2018
Haha I wasn't saying the lead fumes are lethal My Dad's still alive :P
AFAIK, you don't get any noticeable lead toxicity after years of wave soldering work, and actually vaporized burnt rosin causes problems with your respiratory tract earlier than that if you don't avoid its fumes.
l29ah
on 12 Nov 2018
It needs appropriate tooling, i.e. the wire needs to be drawn after casting for use.
How is wire crafted currently? There isn't a drawing plate (idk what they are actually called) in game but they aren't exactly hard to make. Basically just a thick-ish steel plate with some various size holes drilled in it. Ideally the holes are conical shaped for easier use but normal holes can work but are a lot more finicy to use. Other than that you just need a pair of pliers and some space. Heat would theoretically make it easier to draw but I have seen unathletic highschool girls draw silver so solder shouldn't be an issue. Source: Highschool jewelry making class
Theundyingcode
on 13 Nov 2018
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Most helpful comment
When I was a child, I used to disassemble old car batteries, extracting electrodes, then hammered them to crack lead dioxide from the pure lead framing. Then it's possible to melt that lead frames even in the tin can over a campfire and cast an ingot in another tin can or clay/brick mold. I casted lead ingot even in wooden mold once. No special tools required other than a hammer, tin can and heat source.
I'm pretty sure that you don't need to use chemically refined lead to make usable solder. I mean, if quite dirty components are used, solder will be a little less comfortable to use than the proper alloy, but it's still usable. And you easily can use rosin gathered directly from a pine tree as a decent flux.
And of course, you don't need to form a wire to use solder. In USSR solder often used to come in ingots. You could just cut small piece with wire cutter, and use it. Easy enough. And you can use solder blobs as well.
And yes, lead fumes are poisonous, but not THAT poisonous if you melt just a piece and ventilation is fine. Solder includes a lead too, and produces fumes when melted with a solder, but not a lot people instantly died during soldering, as i know. I used to mess a lot with melting lead, and still alive for now.. at the age of 36 :)
