Antennapod: Introduce SponsorBlock to allow blocking/skipping audio ads

[hus115]

Related to #3382, I am looking for the ability to skip past audio ads in podcasts. In the related issue it was closed as it would require a web service to track ad timestamps which was determined to be out of scope.

My suggestion to overcome this would be to integrate with an existing webservice, SponsorBlock is a web browser extension that does this for youtube videos. They created their own webservice to manage the timestamps and the dev behind sponsor block had indicated that they are open to a podcast player integration meaning you would not have to run your own web service, you could use theirs.

As for privacy concerns, making it an opt-in feature that warns of data sharing should resolve that.

[tonytamsf]

I don't think we will run a web service or integrate with an external webservice.

We prefer to have the option to skip the beginning or ending like here #3975

[hus115]

The problem with just skipping the beginning or ending is the time may vary and does nothing for ads in the middle of the podcast.

But honestly no reason you can't do both. This wouldn't replace that, but be another option for users.

[keunes]

I must say it's a very interesting idea. I think indeed such implementation would have to be optional for users - just like Gpodder.net integration. But the fact that it's crowdsourced, open source and free does make it an option for AP. From a marketing perspective I think it would be a great asset if we could claim to be able to skip ads. And I agree with the OP that (even though it's great) begin & end skip doesn't fully solve #3382, given the 'ads in the middle'. If implementing this, I would opt for using & contributing to the central database. Not only would we not want to maintain a webservice - using the central (Creative Commons) database we would contribute to the pool & benefit if other podcasting apps would implement it.

[dotMavriQ]

I really believe that SponsorBlock is sitting on something great in the uBlock-style user-powered filterlists when it comes to Podcasts, and the ripples it could create for open source software could prove to be huge as it would create a "killer app", or a plurality of them, with functionality that proprietary apps simply would not be able to provide and thus would force the market to give the user a higher degree of control. But this isn't a conversation about ideology, granted.

I emailed AntennaPod, which I think is at the forefront when it comes to creating a good open source podcast application for Android that is easily downloaded through F-droid and the likes.

I haven't gotten a response to date but... It would be nice to at least entertain the thought that someone would seize the opportunity, and I can't see why that couldn't be leveraged by those that already hold a lot of the technology that would be necessary.

I understand that a re-purposing and subsequent app-integration or app-in-itself development is outside of the scope of a browser-extension... but the opportunity is there and I hope that people voice their opinions about how much they'd love to live in a world where an app or an integration like that exists.

I don't think we will run a web service or integrate with an external webservice.

We prefer to have the option to skip the beginning or ending like here #3975

I have contentions with this. It assumes that podcasts are formulaic in their delivery of advertisement which they are already not, strictly because of how sponsors want to protect their advertising.
A custom filter powered by users that contribute and score each other would allow for a working custom solution. It is working wonders with SponsorBlock, I really don't see why it wouldn't translate well as an app integration.

[keunes]

emailed AntennaPod, which I think is at the forefront when it comes to creating a good open source podcast application for Android that is easily downloaded through F-droid and the likes.
I haven't gotten a response to date

I guess you sent an email to the community mailing list at [email protected]. I'm one of the people replying to those emails, and I would've just informed you about this GitHub issue ;) So don't expect an answer - one of the current main developers might chip in to this issue.

[ajayyy]

Yea, I'd be up for adding a "service" column to the db to support more than YouTube.

[iTzHard]

Bump

[keunes]

@iTzHard AntennaPod is created by volunteers in their spare time. Saying 'Bump' won't help a lot in getting this implemented, unfortunately. Consider giving a thumbs-up to first post - it'll give some visibility (help when issues are being sorted by up-votes) ;)

[antennapod-bot]

This issue has been mentioned on AntennaPod Forum. There might be relevant details there:

https://forum.antennapod.org/t/ability-to-skip-ads-in-the-podcast/212/2

[keunes]

@ajayyy As you can see I just referenced this feature request on our forum. It'd be great if you'd be willing to chip in there to help flesh out the idea (e.g. re a nice UI integration, maybe you know of examples of how this could be done which you could share in the forum).

[Aypac]

I just want to mention the concern, that podcast producers are really reliant on ad-revenue. I think a few podcasters offer ad-free versions on their patreon-pages. I would find it especially weird to damage the podcaster community, since the flattr option has been broken for some time, see #3266.
And I know, I can just not use the feature. But, I think the mere existence of such a feature might result in companies paying less for ads on podcast, damaging the podcast community as a whole. This is because there is no way for anyone to know how many people actually use that feature (generally, the lack of stats is a big issue for ads on podcast already!). Please don't be pure technologists about this and also consider the moral implications 😃
(If you want to hear more about this, listen here from about 37:35 and pretty much half the podcasts I listen to have mentioned similar situations).

[electronoob]

``

I just want to mention the concern, that podcast producers are really reliant on ad-revenue. I think a few podcasters offer ad-free versions on their patreon-pages. I would find it especially weird to damage the podcaster community, since the flattr option has been broken for some time, see #3266.
And I know, I can just not use the feature. But, I think the mere existence of such a feature might result in companies paying less for ads on podcast, damaging the podcast community as a whole. This is because there is no way for anyone to know how many people actually use that feature (generally, the lack of stats is a big issue for ads on podcast already!). Please don't be pure technologists about this and also consider the moral implications 😃
(If you want to hear more about this, listen here from about 37:35 and pretty much half the podcasts I listen to have mentioned similar situations).

I've stopped listening to podcasts (as a whole) entirely due to the adverts. I don't appreciate the quantity of them nor the disruptive change in pace and volume that occurs usually. Especially if I'm using them to unwind in bed at night. No sympathy from me that's for sure. SponsorBlock has enabled me to enjoy YouTube again and maybe will help me with podcasts in the future too. That would be nice.

[keunes]

Hi @Aypac
I somewhat agree with you - without podcasts no point in having a podcast app. Still, I think that moral choice is for the user to make. We could also be making moral choices regarding content, and the main developer has clearly stated he won't.
Also, I think this feature could win over quite a few people to switch from other podcast apps to AntennaPod. As a comms person I find that worth something as well (next to supporting podcasters).

That said, it is indeed a pity that Flattr stopped support for podcasters. Hopefully many podcasters will adopt the new Funding tag in their RSS feed, so that #4571 can be impactful and so thar in future we can make these funding options even more visible.

[Aypac]

Hi @electronoob,
I get that. I mean everyone hates ads. They are awful. However, we also cannot claim that we are owed ad-free content. If you want to consume podcasts without ads and without paying in any other form, you do not compensate the creator at all and why should they keep creating content then? Will we go to only company-paid and product-placement podcasts?
However, maybe one could talk to some big podcasting company (like NPR) to see if we can maybe find a middle-ground. E.g. that you an individual get access code to ad-free content if you pay a (small) fee?
I just want to prevent a) an arms race and b) the nicest podcasts to be even less financially sound.

[Aypac]

@keunes I agree. However, I think there are already consequences just from the feature existing (see my original post). I think the very least _we_ could do is show a popup incentivizing the user to contribute in another way when activating this feature and they have to activate it for each podcast individually?

+1 for #4571

[keunes]

(If you want to hear more about this, listen here from about 37:35 and pretty much half the podcasts I listen to have mentioned similar situations).

Interesting segment by the way. This (funding models for podcasters) could be an interesting topic to discuss on our forum.

[tonytamsf]

@Aypac I agree with you as well that adding the integration to Auto Skip ads would have a bad look for the app and is bad for the ecosystem at this moment. Maybe when the ecosystem is larger and healthier, we can consider this option.

I am supportive of showing the number of skips and provide the data back to the podcasters and encourage them to

1) provide a paid, ads free feed
2) provide a feedback area, where users can ask for ads free like NPR

[ajayyy]

I am supportive of showing the number of skips and provide the data back to the podcasters and encourage them

For SponsorBlock, I publish all my data publicly (http://sponsor.ajay.app/database.db for raw or https://sb.ltn.fi/ for a web-viewer).

I'm not super familiar with podcasts vs. YouTube, is hosting ad-free versions online the norm? I know with YouTube, things like watchnebula* and corridordigital.com** didn't exist when I first launched SponsorBlock, and even now it's still very few creators who offer that.

* removing sponsors is not done by everyone who uploads there and does not usually apply to their back-catalog.
** removing sponsors does not usually apply to their back-catalog.

[Aypac]

@ajayyy I believe it is not super common for now unfortunately.

One more thing I wanted to add to the discussion: Spotify is currently pushing very hard into the podcasting sector, promising better statistics and ad revenue - often in exchange for "Spotify-exclusive" status (i.e. you can only listen to the podcast on Spotify). I am afraid that an adblock on open platforms (like AntennaPod) would encourage/push even more podcast-producers onto Spotify and away from the original podcast spirit.

[keunes]

Let's continue discussing the ethical/economical discussion on the forum: https://forum.antennapod.org/t/ability-to-skip-ads-in-the-podcast/212

The issue request here is clear I think, so until further technical discussions are required, I'll lock this issue. You may contact me via my username at mailbox.org (or simply comment in the forum) if you think this should be unlocked.

Thanks everyone!