How difficult would it be to add python scripting to TIC80? Thoughts:
- Lua is clunky with classes, lists, and tables
- Moonscript is obscure compared to python, hard to find bugs
- Python is well known, and widely used.
In my opinion, tic80 is a nicer dev environment than pico8. Porting a popular language like python could attract some well deserved attention to the project.
Also, due to the complexity, maybe a financing campaign is in order?
ambyra
All 21 comments
This sounds like a completely different project.
hseiken
on 26 Jun 2017
I would consider this closed with the new Javascript version. JS solves all the problems I mentioned, and runs on the web. Great choice!
ambyra
on 4 Jul 2017
Sorry for continuing this issue, but I'd still like python. I agree with the reasons above but I think it's a ton cleaner than JS. Just saying.
gusg21
on 17 Feb 2018
Currently, TIC80 supports:
- Lua
- Moonscript
- Javascript
- Wren
I do love Python, and I work with it every single day, but Im not sure it would have a good performance on TIC80.
Also, Im not sure how easy it is to add to TIC80, or if it will even work, since TIC80 does not use threads.
frenetic
on 19 Feb 2018
I think main problem with python is that it comes with batteries included and will be really hard to strip it of libraries and keeping it usable (also it is potential security hole).
I see space for some lower level language like compiled C, for graphical experiments which needs better performance. Otherwise good game can be created just in Lua even with its peculiarities .
jahodfra
on 19 Feb 2018
Would there be a way to piggy-back on a host OS's python instance? That'd be cool beans!
trevortomesh
on 17 Mar 2018
Not all OS have Python installed (Im looking at you Windows).
And, even if they have Python installed by default, it might not be the same version (some GNU/Linux distros have Python2.7 while others have python3+).
It wouldnt work for mobile versions, since most of them use sandboxes to run apps, which might block the app running Python (if the mobile OS has Python).
Finally, the WEB/HTML version would need to have a Python (wasm) or Brython available.
frenetic
on 19 Mar 2018
Sorry, python is not very web/phone app friendly. If someone wanted to make a standalone fork, that's great. However, I'm sure the dev isn't interested in putting the resources into it.
ambyra
on 20 Mar 2018
@ambyra oh, I beg to differ re: python. Regardless, I'm happy to fork this and give it a go.
trevortomesh
on 20 Mar 2018
I think the biggest obstacle you will face is that it is really hard to sandbox python. I think the probably best approach is to use rewriter from python to javascript and use existing functionality in TIC-80.
(something what moonscript does).
jahodfra
on 20 Mar 2018
It seems like converting python to lua would be simpler and more direct.
gusg21
on 21 Mar 2018
It would be probably simpler, but I haven't found stable python to lua transpiler. Also would this approach be much better then using wren? Python without standard library is bit toothless.
jahodfra
on 22 Mar 2018
I'm not quite sure why this is a question. I don't mean to be crass or rude, but here's example of what this request sounds like to me...
"Hey, I made a BASIC interpreter."
"Why can't I use PASCAL in it?"
or
"Welcome to the TACO SHOP, would you like to place an order?"
"Do you sell LASAGNA?"
hseiken
on 22 Mar 2018
Even fantasy computers need python...
On Thu, Mar 22, 2018 at 10:46 AM hseiken notifications@github.com wrote:
I'm not quite sure why this is a question. I don't mean to be crass or
rude, but here's example of what this request sounds like to me..."Hey, I made a basic interpreter."
"Why can't I use PASCAL in it?"—
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trevortomesh
on 22 Mar 2018
I'm not making a statement about language value. I'm sure every language is awesome in it's right environment. However, the project seems to have been intended to be a lua-machine. IIRC there IS a fantasy console that runs Python already. I don't remember it's name, but I'm sure with a little digging it can be found.
hseiken
on 22 Mar 2018
I found micropython and it is possible to embed it. It's stripped down python, but I think it could be still quite nice language for TIC-80. Moreover people learning programming could then use it even outside of TIC.
https://github.com/micropython/micropython/tree/master/examples/embedding
@nesbox wdyt?
jahodfra
on 4 Jun 2018
The only problem is that it is not possible to compile micropython with emscripten - there are projects which do that, but their are not in trunk and there are still some issues with GC.
https://github.com/micropython/micropython/issues/3474
Apparently it adds 181 KB of compiled js. (much better than pypy.js or cpython).
jahodfra
on 8 Jun 2018
What about NIM?
Nim can compile to Javascript...
We could provide some tools or guidelines for people to use NIM with TIC80.
They'd get a language that feels like Python, and the language output works on TIC80.
frenetic
on 8 Jun 2018
I've never heard of NIM. I will have to check it out. :-D
On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 2:27 PM Guilherme Medeiros notifications@github.com
wrote:
What about NIM?
Nim can compile to Javascript...
We could provide some tools or guidelines for people to use NIM with TIC80.They'd get a language that feels like Python, and the language output
works on TIC80.—
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trevortomesh
on 8 Jun 2018
Small example game for nim https://picheta.me/snake/
has 256KB of js and 168KB of minified js.
TIC-80 has 64KB code limit. I think this explains why nim cannot work through separate pipeline.
I'm considering trying Transcrypt which claims 20KB runtime in js.
jahodfra
on 8 Jun 2018
Ooh NIM supports bare metal / mcu programming? :-D
On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 2:40 PM František Jahoda notifications@github.com
wrote:
Small example game for nim https://picheta.me/snake/
has 256KB of js and 168KB of minified js.
TIC-80 has 64KB code limit. I think this explains why nim cannot work
through separate pipeline.I'm considering trying Transcrypt which claims 20KB runtime in js.
—
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trevortomesh
on 8 Jun 2018
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Most helpful comment
Sorry for continuing this issue, but I'd still like python. I agree with the reasons above but I think it's a ton cleaner than JS. Just saying.