Tdesktop: Using OSM instead of Google Maps

[Robot8A]

Hi, I'm wondering why do you use Google Maps when you send/recieve a location.
It would be great if you could use OpenStreetMap (it's open source!) instead of GMaps, or if not, let you choose the map provider that you prefer.
Thanks.

[Robot8A]

I prefer using open source software, and Google Maps is propietary.
Google Maps is run by a company with its own interests, whereas OSM is run by a non profit organisation.
The map data in OSM is editable by everyone (think of it as the Wikipedia of the maps), so it's mostly up to date, and overall most detailed as Google Maps.
I think it fits better the Telegram philosophy, because it is open source aswell.
If you want to know more about the project, go check the Wikipedia article about OSM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStreetMap
or the OSM webpage: osm.org

Said that, I personally no longer use Google Maps anymore, not even on mobile phone (I've uninstalled it), and I would love to see that my favourite messaging app lets its users choose what map they want to use.

[Robot8A]

Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_map_services

[john-preston]

@Robot8A Regarding tdesktop you mean open links there (how does a link with latitude and longitude and a dropped pin point look using OSM?) or using small images in chat message history (how does a link to such image with desired coordinates, zoom level and a dropped pin point look using OSM?)

[Robot8A]

With dropped pin: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=51.5140&mlon=-0.1153#map=15/51.5140/-0.1153
Without it: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/51.5140/-0.1153

[Robot8A]

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Deploying_your_own_Slippy_Map

[Robot8A]

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/TMS

[Robot8A]

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_servers

[Robot8A]

This is also interesting: http://mc.bbbike.org/mc/?lon=13.38885&lat=52.51703&zoom=11&num=2&mt0=mapnik&mt1=google-map&marker=

[Zverik]

Also you would have to pay for Google Static Maps API that you currently use, if usage exceeds 25k views per day: https://developers.google.com/maps/documentation/static-maps/usage-limits

[sabas]

I support this, it would also be in the spirit of more privacy (than other messaging services).
See Eraser Map as a privacy-focused map application based on OSM https://github.com/mapzen/eraser-map

[bcalik]

OSM is not up to date in most of countries.

[Zverik]

No map is up to date anywhere. But OSM is free to use and is updated by 40k mappers monthly.

[KamranMackey]

Sure, but Google Maps is better and is far more updated. I highly doubt Telegram will switch mapping services. Google Maps is fantastic.

[Zverik]

Please add "around my house" when you post such comparisons. Here is Velikiye Luki in Russia, for example.

[bcalik]

Here is Kağıthane / Istanbul / Turkey. Location of our company.
No street names, buildings, nothing on OSM. Also missing some roads, wrong names etc.

We have a vehicle tracking product, and none of our clients wants to use OSM. We tried to use once, and we got a lot of negative feedback.

[fredao]

Do you believe that arbitrarily selected examples are a proof?

• http://tools.geofabrik.de/mc/#15/37.9294/58.3749&num=2&mt0=mapnik&mt1=google-map
• http://tools.geofabrik.de/mc/#16/-2.1845/-79.9114&num=2&mt0=mapnik&mt1=google-map
• http://tools.geofabrik.de/mc/#15/-17.3554/-66.2092&num=2&mt0=mapnik&mt1=google-map
• ...

[bcalik]

People also share location on a messenger app for navigation/routing purposes. Since Google Maps also provides navigation solutions on all platforms, it is a much better choice.

[fredao]

@bcalik FUD - "it is a much better choice."

[fredao]

@bcalik OSM also provides navigation solutions on all platforms - did you know that?

[bcalik]

How? I can set route of my Android Auto car with one click from Google Maps.

[fredao]

yes, and I do it with Maps.me :) ... and that is only ONE example ... ;-)

[bcalik]

So you mean, when someone send me location, then I open it on tdesktop, it will redirect me to some unknown web app that uses OSM as a map layer, then I should somehow open same location on Maps.me app, then etc.. And does it even support android auto / apple carplay.. Or If I am using an iOS device then there is no way telegram can redirect me to Maps.me or other custom apps.

Edit: Also, since Maps.me is based on OSM, and so it is missing street names, buildings, etc on many countries, it is not effective to use as a navigation for most people.

[Robot8A]

The Geo URI exists, so maybe it could be implemented so telegram links to the URI, and then you can open the location with your preferred navigation app.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geo_URI_scheme

[Robot8A]

Maybe not for the desktop version, because not many browsers support the geo: URI yet, but maybe for a mobile implementation of Telegram.

[Robot8A]

Also: http://www.openstreetmap.org/directions

[bcalik]

@Robot8A: Directions does not mean navigation. It has to consider traffic, tolls etc.

[az09]

No war! Let then this will have a choice of several options. Then compare

[MrYadro]

Google Maps or not, question was about "_Can we have another provider for people who don't like to send his/her data to corporate company_" In some cases Google maps is better, in some OSM, maybe you like Apple maps, WHO CARES. Every map has missing data. Having buildings around on a map doesn't mean that they are around in real life. As I know Google maps takes AGES to remove buildings.

P.S. @KamranMackey if you think OSM is bad, call unknown company @uber and ask why do they use it. Same goes to @mapbox, and many gis applications.

[fredao]

@Zverik @MrYadro please have in mind @KamranMackey is very young. ;-)

[bcalik]

@MrYadro: Uber is using Google Maps. I have just checked from their iOS app.

[MrYadro]

@bcalik I did not said _a word_ about their app. OSM is about _data_, you can build anything location related based on it.

https://www.uber.com/legal/other/data-providers/

[santamariense]

Some places are better in OSM, some in GMaps. In my city I think OSM is better (https://goo.gl/ctGaHN). The question is that OSM is more about the telegram's philosophy. The users of telegram will help OSM rise better. And more... OSM cannot use GMaps to get the map better, but if Google want to use OSM, it can as long as Google cite about the source (www.osm.org/copyright). OSM is getting better day after day and it is becoming the best map of the world.

[santamariense]

@bcalik, You can become a volunteer and help editing the map http://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id&way=35116146#map=17/41.08408/28.98628

[auchri]

You can edit the gmap too

[sabas]

@auchri not anymore https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/map-maker/UEN0wxhj6Rs
(editing geometry will go away in march)

BTW this issue is a feature request, not a discussion on which map is better.

[santamariense]

@auchri , The MapMaker is being deactived. All you contribute to GMaps are their property. All you contribute to OSM is humanity property. You can use OSM DATA, but you cannot use Google DATA (even you have contributed). The question is: Do you want waste your time helping a big company getting more and more the world dominance or do you want waste your time helping to build a thing to the humanity?

[yopaseopor]

Do you can configure GMaps to show any specific data? Nor, you can't
In OSM Yes, you can. All you see in this issue is about Osmcarto, one of lots of the renders you can find working with OSM, because is not a map, it is a data base, a gigantic geodata base. And with this data you can do the best map ever, with the specific data you want. And if the data is not here yet....you can add it. Think in Wikipedia: Which did won: Encarta or Wikipedia? History will repeat it again

Also this issue is for being able to choose, what is wrong with that?

[fredao]

@KamranMackey as you are young and maybe you are still interested to learn that the world of maps is not only black and white https://youtu.be/552lYVwoz2o

[thisconnect]

I support this, it would also be in the spirit of more privacy (than other messaging services).

It is surprising that no one else has privacy concerns in this discussion.

[mxa]

AFAIK Removing gmaps would also remove one proprietary binary blob from Telegram Android, so that it doesn't need to be ripped out in the F-droid version. OSM is the way!

[Robot8A]

Yeah, my original idea was to post this issue on every platform, but unfortunately Telegram Android doesn't have issues.
Telegram FOSS (the F-Droid version) already has this issue, they have the location deactivated because they don't want to use propietary libraries, if you want to comment on this issue: https://github.com/slp/Telegram-FOSS/issues/121

[denadai2]

I chose Telegram because it is a bit more distant to "big companies who can steal your data". This could sound stupid, but it's not to me.

Choosing OSM instead of Gmaps could have these impacts:

• freedom from big companies like Google (privacy)
• less traceability, especially in war zones (e.g. Africa) where the Government (in civil war) could be interested in tracing you
• it could help improving an Open and crowd-founded/sourced solution as OSM, which we all should support no matter what. As @bcalik and @fredao said, OSM is good and bad in many locations but it is good ESPECIALLY where Google doesn't have commercial interests. However, let's use it and push foward contributions to OSM

The integration could be done in this way:
1- share a mini image either in OSM/Gmaps
2- when you click you choose to open it in OSM/Maps.me/Apple maps or in Gmaps (right now you are not allowing anything. It's arbitrary)

[mxa]

Worth mentioning in this context is that the OSM community is using Telegram as one of their channels of communication.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/List_of_OSM_centric_Telegram_accounts

[Skippern]

Just did a map comparison of my home town, where OSM is rapidly improving map quality, while Google is showing outdated information. Since OSM is user-driven community, increased exposure will make it more detailed and more up to date by the minute, while Google and other commercial services rely fully on release of official datas, which might take months of processing before being entered into the map.

[gorn]

support this, it would also be in the spirit of more privacy (than other messaging services).
It is surprising that no one else has privacy concerns in this discussion.

It is surprising that telegram whose first argument on its own homepage under "Why switch to Telegram?" is PRIVACY does not really care about privacy. Or does it?

[amunizp]

So to add up:

• Some users want to be offered the choice of OSM compatible API
• Ap developers concerned that Gmaps will probably cost money when number of users increase. non-gratis
• gMaps is non-libre
• gMaps has tracking
• OSM is not that popular with some who have good support for their area.
• iOS dropped gMaps in favour of an OSM based app some years ago.
• OSM seems to only get better while gMaps probably peaked?
• Anything else?

[mxa]

For what it matters, the FOSS-Fork of Telegram has already implemented OpenStreetMap. It's nice, but not perfect (the preview map in the chat is still a gmaps for example) https://github.com/Telegram-FOSS-Team/Telegram-FOSS/issues/151

[lgommans]

In my country (the Netherlands), OSM is more up to date than Google Maps. And I, too, would prefer not to send data to Google when using a messenger that claims to be privacy-oriented. As it is, I can't even view coordinates to manually copy them to the mapping application of my choice, I would have to pull the data from tg-cli. A meet-in-the-middle solution would be to allow viewing coordinates in some way, until we can integrate OSM properly.

[ianthetechie]

Shameless plug for my own company, Stadia Maps (stadiamaps.com) here ;) We use OSM data, have a static maps API, and can handle your loads for a fraction of what Google charges these days.

[prototype99]

OSM is used in many projects such as Pokemon go, and has a stronger framework than google maps. As bing maps data is already allowed to be used to help with map editing it may not be unrealistic to suggest Microsoft may in the future contribute their map data and start being a potential long term contributor which would probably make the maps comparable to google. That aside i find the biggest problem with google maps is that it's easier to fix wrong business data, than it is to fix geographical features which should be their primary concern. there are plenty of working examples of routing being used with OSM

[garro95]

I think that at least, the program should let the user choose the map provider from settings.

[p0358]

Currently it still links to Google Maps, but the preview is definitely not Google Maps, it looks like OSM actually

[gorn]

Make it settable in setting or use geo link

[mxa]

FWIW the competitors have made the switch https://threema.ch/en/blog/posts/threema-android-fresh-look-and-even-more-privacy

[gorn]

Threema makes a good point. By using googlemaps in your application you make user share his position with google without him/her necessarilly knowing it

[Skippern]

With OSM maps, the app could either use any of the already existing tiles services, or host its own.

[camelCaseNick]

@p0358 I searched for it in the source code, but couldn't find it. I hope it's not OSM, because that would be a copyright infringement, because no attribution is added.

Does anyone know the source of the current map image?

I'd prefer at least the option to opt for another map provider, since Google is still the one linked from the image, though the image doesn't look to originate from Google.

[p0358]

@camelCaseNick Honestly I cannot confirm that for sure at all, I am aware of some detail differences between Google, OSM and Bing, but they're impossible to tell apart near my location at these zoom levels. Would need to search for some public examples where there's huge difference in mapping details between Google and OSM and check these ones to judge.
And I think the map preview _might_ be generated purely by the server, so there are big chances you won't find it in the code thus.

[mxa]

The preview image is definitely OSM and there doesn't seem to be attribution. Anyway this is a different issue then this one, @camelCaseNick if you feel strongly about this, open another issue and demand attribution, this issue is about replacing Google or at least to give the user the choice.

[Aokromes]

if generation is generated server side, i think there is no need of attribution.

[camelCaseNick]

@Aokromes No, it has nothing to do with the images. Yes, the images from many OSM tiles are under a CC-BY-SA or alike, but the data itself is already under the ODbL (with an attribution requirement). So "© OpenStreetMap contributors" is still needed. But @mxa is right, this issue is about to use OSM and not to use it right. (Though both go hand in hand.)

[Aokromes]

generic ticket.
https://github.com/telegramdesktop/tdesktop/issues/6789