Streetcomplete: New quest: Organic products in trade?

[ServusWorld]

Where it shows up

At all Objects where food is in trade. Well, …

• amenity = restaurant
• amenity = café
• amenity = fast_food
• amenity = biergarten
• amenity = bar
• amenity = pub
• shop = alcohol
• shop = bakery
• shop = beverages
• shop = brewing_supplies
• shop = butcher
• shop = cheese
• shop = chocholate
• shop = coffee
• shop = confectionery
• shop = convenience
• shop = deli
• shop = dairy
• shop = farm
• shop = greengrocer
• shop = ice_cream
• shop = pasta
• shop = pastry
• shop = seafood
• shop = spices
• shop = tea

_(Maybe still more)_
… where the organic tag is missing.

What will be added

The organic tag will be filled with organic=no, organic=yes or organic=only

Form

Other answers

When browsing through the values for the “organic” key on taginfo, I didn’t find any useful values apart from “yes”, “no” and “only”. So I don’t have any ideas for other answers.

Icon

Orange seems to be the color for all POI quests. This one would fit into that row.
As symbol I’d suggest a leaf, I found an SVG here
For this draft, I colored that icon green (same shade as on the money icon), flipped it and distorted it a bit:

[westnordost]

Needs research in which countries this is reasonable to ask. (I.e. in many countries, there is not even the concept of "organic").

Also, a problem I see with this quest in general is that it may be weird, even in a country like Austria, to be asked as a user for each and every Frittenbude, Kneipe, bakery etc. if it offers organic food. And, if they do, will they advertise it so prominently that you can see it from the outside? I can tell at least one place in my neighbourhood where it is not apparent from the outside that all their burgers are organic.

Also, speaking of organic burgers - what to tag if the burger meat is organic, but the rest (patty, salad etc) is not and/or unknown because not advertised?

[rugk]

And, if they do, will they advertise it so prominently that you can see it from the outside?

When they are clever, they do. :laughing:

[CloCkWeRX]

And, if they do, will they advertise it so prominently that you can see it
from the outside?

I think that limitation assumes one kind of survey - walking around with
phone in hand. I'd be really keen to explore a gentle fork of
StreetComplete focused on "I'm sitting down/standing around in line inside
of a business, what can I answer" for things like this, #104 #99 etc.

You could even call it... "EatComplete" :P

[ServusWorld]

@CloCkWeRX
That's a good idea! Maybe such POI-specific quests shouldn't be shown on the map always, but only if you are very near (distance < 15m) to it so that it can be assumed you are inside.

Moreover, I don't think the organic OSM tag is so strict. According to the wiki's definition

organic=yes: The shop or restaurant usually offers some organic products. For example conventional supermarkets which offer a permanent product line of organic staple food fall under that category.

an organic burger meat would be enough to at least tag the POI it with yes

The geographic scope is still an issue, but research can be done here or here

[rugk]

First may be maybe discuss this in a new issue, as it get's off-topic from "organic quest" now…

IMHO a fork would not be nice, (don't wanna use two apps…) better improve this app. The best thing would be if https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/35 is solved and then such quests could be added as "disabled by default".

[rugk]

So I opened a new issue about that discussion to keep it out of other unrelated issues. It includes a summary of the current ideas. See https://github.com/westnordost/StreetComplete/issues/558

[westnordost]

So, my concern about spamming users with this question still remains. Also, I wouldn't know any major supermarket chain in Germany that does _not_ have a range of _Bio_ (organic) products, so I don't see that it makes sense to ask (as it also requires the surveyor to go inside, btw).

So, what I need for this quest:

1. a reasonable choice of elements (and/or overpass query with a heuristic) where it makes sense to ask and where it is expected that you do not need to go inside. You enumerated all the tags that organic _could_ be applied to. What is needed for StreetComplete is a subset of that list (see quest suggestion guideline in the wiki: No spam, Publicly accessible, Easy answer)
2. and then, if such a sublist can be found, a list of countries where the legal concept of organic products exists to show this quest only in these countries

Then, this quest would be ready to be implemented.

[kayD]

At least in my town there are bakeries and butchers (both happen to be within a supermarket building) that offer really no organic food.

[ENT8R]

But if the majority of the stores still offers at least a small range of organic products (organic=yes) then this quest would be spam... 3 or 4 stores selling no organic products at all is still too less compared to a city with 100-300 stores.

[matkoniecz]

a reasonable choice of elements (and/or overpass query with a heuristic) where it makes sense to ask and where it is expected that you do not need to go inside. You enumerated all the tags that organic could be applied to. What is needed for StreetComplete is a subset of that list (see quest suggestion guideline in the wiki: No spam, Publicly accessible, Easy answer)

My feeling is nowdays nearly everything (at least in Poland) offers some "bio" products or pretends that their product are bio.

So the quest would be basically "is this place using popular types of marketing".

[westnordost]

So I think it makes sense to implement it for (small) shops that are not part of a chain. Shops that come to my mind are:

• greengrocers
• butchers
• bakeries
• farm shops
• coffee
• tea
• spices
• dairy
• cheese
• chocolate

, maybe additionally with !brand.

Though, we still need a list of countries where the concept of organic food exists (with official labels) at all, so it can be limited to that. I added the help needed label, maybe someone would like to research that.

[matkoniecz]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_certification lists all members of EU, UK, USA, Canada, Japan, India, China, Cambodia, Australia (self-governing by producers)

Countries where no misleading advertising is allowed (selling non-certified described as certified), making this quest viable

Japan - https://www.maff.go.jp/e/policies/standard/jas/index.html 'Organic JAS Applied to the agricultural products and processed foods which conform to the Organic JAS. Without Organic JAS logo, any products can’t be labelled as “organic”. "