Streamlink: Naming issues

[bastimeyer]

We should discuss the project's naming conflicts.

Since the creation of the fork, many people (including myself) have mentioned potential issues with the name "streamlink". The reason for this is an already existing organization called StreamLink Software, whose name stands in conflict with this project here.

I'd like to see this issue being solved before it is getting too late. The size and adoption of the fork is still relatively low, so finding a new conflict-free name shouldn't cause too much damage. The later we wait for this, the worse it gets.

[cdrage]

Imo, I think it's okay and there's no issue. Two different products. Sort of like how livestreamer sounds the same as livestream.

There's no sign of usage from them on github.

If anyone can come up with a better name feel free to speak up!

[MrLint]

I'm startign to kick around names in my head until i find something i like.

[gravyboat]

I'm not too concerned. We could always reach out to them to see if it's a problem since we're not exactly getting rich off of working on the project. Any name related to streaming like this is most likely going to be taken already so I would rather focus our energies into the software rather than worrying about potential legal issues. @cdrage Should we shoot them a quick email about this? If so we should create a separate issue and ensure they know the email will be publicly posted for project transparency purposes.

[alphapapa]

A few ideas:

• streamhelper
• streamfetcher
• streamloader

And a silly one: streamerer

[MrLint]

Streamverter?

[cdrage]

@gravyboat I think we should stay with just streamlink. Honestly, neither projects relate to each-other (one is for streaming, other is for management tasks / task delegation).

They've got our contact information, but it won't affect us in regards to trademark law.

Like what @gravyboat mentioned, regardless of what we pick it's most likely going to be taken. I bring up the fact that "livestreamer" is still close to the name "livestream" yet they had no problems (and I think it's a 4 year old project?)

[alphapapa]

They've got our contact information, but it won't affect us in regards to trademark law.

You might be right, but you might not be. Remember that Firefox was once called Phoenix, and then Firebird, and then finally Firefox. Firebird is the name of some database software--clearly nothing to do with a web browser, yet Mozilla changed the name anyway. Not that this project would attract attention like Firefox, but food for thought. :)

[TheSneakySniper]

how about firestreamer

• firelink
• streamerlink
• livestreamerlink
• linkstream

[martinth]

What about something really short and handy? Because it would actually be the name of the executable so you type it a lot.

• stream
• strim
• strm (going full startup here)
  -...

Something in that direction.

Additional benefit of having a single English word would be that there is imho no way you could ever run into leagle issues because there is afaik no way to trademark singular words.

[cdrage]

@martinth problem with that (other than strm) is that it would be really hard to search for on google / seo for people whom want a streaming client :(

i do like the whole "small word since it's typed a lot" vibe.

[MrLint]

@cdrage So speaking of searching, I had a bit of trouble finding this project because of the all the existing uses of streamlink. I had to go back to the post by @bastimeyer to link into it directly.

[bastimeyer]

@gravyboat @cdrage
_Potential_ legal issues should not be ignored. Livestreamer didn't have those issues, because "livestream" is just a normal, generic word and "livestreamer" is not related to any company name.

Should we shoot them a quick email about this? If so we should create a separate issue and ensure they know the email will be publicly posted for project transparency purposes.

This is what should be done before thinking about renaming the project.

@MrLint
This is true, but that's just because streamlink is new and doesn't have any refering links of other websites yet. If you search for livestreamer, you will also get results of "Livestream LLC". I think the results can be changed quickly, but there will always remain a certain confusion for a couple of users. Just think about the query autocomplete function of google, suggesting "streamlink software".

Based on @martinth's post:
strmlnk is basically the same name, just without vowels. So if we need to rename the project, this would be my suggestion.

[cdrage]

@bastimeyer

They're registered as "StreamLink Software Inc".

I've sent them an email for initial point of contact, once legal has contacted me I'll relay the email publicly here.

[TheSneakySniper]

I like linkstream

[tp0]

I agree that shorter name would be beneficial, since that is what will be written everytime for the command (that's why I make aliases/bash functions, but that's just 2-3 letters). However strmlnk particularly is perhaps hard to type: try typing it 10 times really fast and see how many times you get it wrong.

ps. I always thought think the original name was misleading, because of the "-streamer" part, because it sounds more like screencasting.

[TheGoblinHero]

livestreamer-ng or something similar

[winauer]

Why not just call it livestreamer2?

[karlo2105]

And why don't u use livestreamer name like originál?

[cdrage]

@karlo2105 developer abandoned the project

[karlo2105]

@cdrage
But you can fork Livestreamer by keeping the same name of project.
I think it's pointless to change name as it will make several projects of same program with different names.

[sbstp]

The name is taken on pypi by the old, unmaintained project. We can't push updates to pypi using the old name.

[karlo2105]

You can push changes on existing project by pulling requests.
If you want to make separate project, I will choose Livestreamer2 name.

[sbstp]

You don't understand. We can't update the livestreamer package on python's official distribution platform (pypi) because we don't have the permissions, and the maintainer is not responsive.

[karlo2105]

Is there any alternative to pypi to keep on with same name project ?

[gravyboat]

@karlo2105 No there isn't.

[karlo2105]

Some members made fork from livestreamer by keeping same name and contributed to original project.
How did it work on their side pypi needs permissions ?

[skulblakka]

and contributed to original project.

That's why. They made Pull Request to the original project that were pulled into it. However as the original maintainer is no longer continuing the project no Pull Request are being merged.

[lawin1]

Just add "-er": streamlinker.

[MrLint]

Streamera? I dont see this on any search results.

[weedy]

strm (going full startup here)

strmr
As in strimmer is your group full? We should go full meme naming

[strudelkuchen]

Livestreamer2 sounds good.
The first major fork of mplayer was called mplayer2, which then got forked and gave us mpv.

[SanyaIV]

I second Livestreamer2 but also like Streamera.

[alphapapa]

lvstrmr is short and seems to not turn up search results.

[scottbernstein-zz]

I like streamlink just fine :)

---

From: SanyaIV [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 12:24:00 PM
To: streamlink/streamlink
Subject: Re: [streamlink/streamlink] Naming issues (#65)

I second Livestreamer2 but also like Streamera.

You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.
Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/streamlink/streamlink/issues/65#issuecomment-255597913, or mute the threadhttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AESJ1hpVjxTNVNlROcnQMFkJT5Uz7K-iks5q24oggaJpZM4KMfJ1.

[bastimeyer]

@cdrage Did you receive a response from them yet? It's been almost four weeks since you've sent the email. I think this can be interpreted as "we don't care".

[cdrage]

@bastimeyer yeah, despite the correspondent forwarding the email to the legal department, i hadn't heard anything back.

I don't think they care.

My apologizes, I do not distribute leads.. simply follow up on them. I’ll get your message to the correct person.

Thanks,

Brittani Ellis
Sales Representative
StreamLink Software
[email protected]
(o) 216. 800. 4984

From: Charlie Drage [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2016 10:19 AM
To: Brittani Ellis <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Follow up to "Contact Us" Request- AmpliFund

[gravyboat]

@cdrage For visibility purposes could you please post your original email to them as well? Then we have a public record of it.

[cdrage]

@gravyboat
Checked through my email and there automated system / ticket thingy that replies back didn't include my original reply. Basically, I said that we have a project on github called streamlink, that takes online streams and pipes it into a video player.

This is the full email chain:

Hi Charlie,

I wanted to follow up to your interest in our grant management tool, AmpliFund. Let me know if you have any questions or would like to schedule a demonstration. Feel free to send me some dates/times that work for your schedule and I’d be happy to get an invite sent your way.

Best Regards,

Brittani Ellis
Sales Representative
[phone]
[email protected]
812 Huron Road E, Ste 350
Cleveland, OH 44115
cid:[email protected]

Errrr, I think you sent me an automated message.

Could you please read the initial contact request and forward my information to the legal department?

Many thanks!

...
My apologizes, I do not distribute leads.. simply follow up on them. I’ll get your message to the correct person.

Thanks,

Brittani Ellis
Sales Representative
StreamLink Software
[email protected]
(o) 216. 800. 4984

[alphapapa]

Regardless of whether they respond with permission or don't respond at all, I think it would be unwise to start this fork off with a potential "time bomb" that could force a name change at an unknown future date. They could always change their minds, e.g. if someone else takes over that role at the company.

This is a software project, and that "StreamLink" company makes software, so this is an obvious trademark issue. Just think of how much of a hassle it would be to get 6 months into the fork and be forced to change its name everywhere: GitHub, PyPI, web sites, notices to the community, transitional packages, etc.

Let's pick a name that doesn't start us off with problems. :)

[karlo2105]

Why not Livestreamer2 ? It would be much easier to merge everything with original project when Chrippa decides to give access to his project. ;)

[beardypig]

I think this has been resolved by not doing anything, seems like we are keeping the name streamlink...

[cdrage]

Let's close this for now :)