Server: Grid default after upgrade

[tobiasKaminsky]

I noticed that grid view is default after upgrade, which might scare some people ;-)

Looking at Android and what we discussed there:

• on default we have list view
• we remember if a folder is set to grid/list view and this will be used for any subfolder, unless overridden manually again

If you really want to have grid view as default, maybe because it is common on desktop file browser, maybe consider this:

• auto switch from list to grid or vice vera on a threshold (e.g. >90% of files are media files), this then should be in conjunction with "remember state"
• show a little introduction on first login after upgrade:
  
  
  
  • nothing too fancy, but just
  
  
  • text that grid is now default
  
  
  • pointing toggle at top right to directly show the user how to switch back
  
  
  • (or: "do you want to have grid view as default?" with yes / no)
  
  

[tobiasKaminsky]

@nextcloud/designers

[nextcloud-bot]

GitMate.io thinks possibly related issues are https://github.com/nextcloud/server/issues/3119 (Default calendar not showing after Upgrade to Nextcloud 11.0.1), https://github.com/nextcloud/server/issues/2564 (SVG issues after upgrade), https://github.com/nextcloud/server/issues/9795 (Upgrade error), https://github.com/nextcloud/server/issues/2898 (Upgrade Issue), and https://github.com/nextcloud/server/issues/4908 (Problem upgrading NextCloud).

[skjnldsv]

I personally don't mind :)

[tobiasKaminsky]

Hehe. For me this not about individual preferences, but about having a smooth transition from NC14 to 15 wrt grid view.

So you do not expect any complaining/surprised user by this big visual change?

[skjnldsv]

@tobiasKaminsky surprise is ok if they like it, I expect positive surprise and not bad feedback ;)

[MorrisJobke]

@tobiasKaminsky surprise is ok if they like it, I expect positive surprise and not bad feedback ;)

I would still go for the list view as of now. The switch was always there with the gallery and we got very little complains so far that it is not the default. Let's not change too much.

At least that is my opinion.

[skjnldsv]

@MorrisJobke I'm completely fine with both to be honest :)
I'll let you folks decide on this :)

[jancborchardt]

I think it’s very important that we simply default to grid view for 15, and yes, even switch people upgrading to have grid view initially. Why?

• It is the default view on macOS Finder, Ubuntu/GNOME Files, and kinda-sorta in Windows 10
• It’s entirely new, and it’s a really good view. Much better than the database-like row view with small icons
• No one will try it out otherwise. People do not fiddle with settings, and our previous "grid view" entailed switching to an entirely different app, and loading for ~10 seconds. This would keep people from ever using this button again.
• "Gallery" was never really a grid view. It did not show all the files.
• An introductory text for introducing a new view is really overkill. The simplest is always just to show it.
• If you don’t like it, it’s very easy and _fast_ to switch back and it will be remembered.
• We can still do any fancy "Automatically use grid view when x% is pictures" at a later stage
• Files is our core, and it hasn’t gotten a real design improvement in a long time. List views are boring as hell and I’m really happy we finally are able to show people’s files in a beautiful view. This is really a statement for 15.

So yes – this is intentionally set as new default, also for people upgrading. If there is any "backlash" then there’s a super accessible quick switch, and in any case I take all the blame.

cc @karlitschek @jospoortvliet

[skjnldsv]

in any case I take all the blame

Let's not talk about who to blame :grin:
We're all responsible, that's why we're having this discussion ;)

[tobiasKaminsky]

I am not against grid at all, it is really cool.
My concern is only that it is default without showing/explaining the user how to go back.
So any notification/popup showing this, would be a good way in my opinion.

(but I am not that used to web users…)
One could also say that there will be an announcement for NC15, but I think not all will read it…

[karlitschek]

I think we can make it default IF it is fully polished. Is there a screenshot somewhere?

[skjnldsv]

I think we can make it default IF it is fully polished. Is there a screenshot somewhere?

@karlitschek :)

[karlitschek]

nice 👍

[jancborchardt]

I would close this then. The view is very polished, and because of our clean interface the toggle to change the view is quite visible.

And as such, thresholds for changing the view are also not really necessary anymore as they would only be needed when the default is _list_ and you then view an image-only folder.

(Hope that’s ok and the reasoning is good @tobiasKaminsky? We can still work out the details of course.)

[pixelipo]

I expect a flurry of bug reports the moment we deploy this, but that is to be expected since it's in human nature to fear anything new (at first).

I'm a bit worried about low-memory installations (such as RPi) - will it kill those servers (rendering thumbnails) the moment they open up a grid view with hundreds of JPG files? From my experience with the Gallery app, it was almost impossible to use on such a system, because it didn't show image title while thumbnail was loading.

I'm really sorry for not having tested the new Grid view (looks great on screenshots, though!), is that handled in a good way?

[jancborchardt]

@pixelipo good question about the Raspberry Pi setups. Do you know anything about that @skjnldsv @rullzer @jospoortvliet others?

I expect a flurry of bug reports the moment we deploy this, but that is to be expected since it's in human nature to fear anything new (at first).

And yep – the usual. :) And people who like stuff never open an issue. :cry:

[skjnldsv]

@pixelipo this is not highh-res, but it might be good to create either a cron task or a generation-on-upload for later yes :)

[tobiasKaminsky]

@jancborchardt as this was only a discussion, I am fine with closing it.

Maybe you want to think about remembering the preferred view for each folder?
On Android I really like this, as there are quite some folders (e.g. AutoUpload), where I want to have grid in it and all subfolders, and then e.g. Documents, where I never want to have it.

[jancborchardt]

Maybe you want to think about remembering the preferred view for each folder?

@tobiasKaminsky yup, that’s definitely a good improvement! Guess it needs some more changes, so more something for 16. Could you open an issue for that? :)

[jancborchardt]

Reopening as we had some discussions (cc @karlitschek) and feedback – grid view is not polished enough for default yet. @skjnldsv @MorrisJobke I don’t know how to change the default, could you adjust it?

[skjnldsv]

@jancborchardt could you explain what is missing? :)

[jospoortvliet]

@skjnldsv look in our sales folders for example - most of those files would be indistinguishable because the long file names won't be visible and the thumbnails don't differentiate them. We need to figure out how to change that before we can make this default.

Imho in the file selector it looks better - also less clutter with share & ... menu etc.

I'm sure these can be resolved but we don't want to make a big change until we're 100% sure it won't be disruptive.

[MorrisJobke]

I don’t know how to change the default, could you adjust it?

You did that ;) It's basically assigning a class to the DOM element of the app ;)

[MorrisJobke]

Will need to go into the RC 1 then, because beta 2 is out.

[skjnldsv]

Not exactly, just toggle the getUserValue and i'll be fine
I'll push a fix

[jancborchardt]

Imho in the file selector it looks better - also less clutter with share & ... menu etc.

@jospoortvliet good point – see my comment on the issue about grid view filename readability which would reduce the visible actions: https://github.com/nextcloud/server/issues/12135#issuecomment-440275857