Riot: Riot Tagline

[geordee]

Current Tagline

"A React-like, 3.5KB user interface library"

• React-like - Identity by comparison
• At 3.5KB, it loses marketing charm, as against the original 1KB, plus the tagline keeps changing
• User interface is fine, but the term has been in play for past 40 years or more
• Library, it is

Thoughts:

• Riot? Two meanings, one negative and other positive
  ** Uproar, rampage, violent
  ** Splash, extravagance, flourish

Suggestions:

• A small library to build web components and more
• A compact library to build web components and more
• A compact library to build user interfaces for the web
  ** (though I am using Riot to build cross-platform mobile apps)

Avoiding cliched keywords like efficient, modern, tiny, framework, which lose its meaning over time.

[tipiirai]

"A small tool for building user interfaces."

The term "user interfaces" is rock solid. It has sustained for the past 40 years :)

[pyros2097]

"A small tool for building user interfaces for the web and mobile" if your planning to do something like reapp

[crisward]

I think the current tag-line carries a lot of important information. As a react user needing something more light weight for smaller tasks it said exactly what I needed to know. I realise 3.5kb may change over time, but I'd have been sold it if it had said < 5kb.

"A small tool for building user interfaces"

Could just as easily be describing backbone. small is very vague.

+1 for keeping something similar to currently line.

[tipiirai]

I can also go with the current tag line. It was a careful decision to use the word "React" since many people will immediately know what is this all about.

I guess we can keep it for one year or so before React is history :)

Thanks @crisward

[geordee]

I agree that small is very vague, and that's why I thought of compact, which also have some positive feel, meaning well-organized, packed and all.

Shall we change size (3.5KB) as it is not true anymore? I gzipped riot.min.js and got close to 5KB (4948 bytes).

Let us keep the current tagline otherwise.

Should it be then "A React-like user interface library" or "A React-like user interface library under 5KB"

By the way, React tagline reads "A JavaScript library for building user interfaces"

[tipiirai]

I think we should remove the size from the tag line. Seems to bring more troubles than benefits.

[crisward]

The size is a BIG selling point. Event if it said <10kb it's still 12x smaller the react. With riot I can write a basic application and still be smaller than most frameworks - that's very cool.

[tipiirai]

Of course. Small codebase is one of the main driving factors on Riot development.

But could it be taken out from the tagline? The constantly changing size doesn't look pretty. Perhaps use a good adjective there and move the comparison tables upfront on the front page.

[geordee]

I started with Riot, then went to React, and I found it a bit too much for me. So I returned to Riot. There is some inherent beauty and simplicity in working with Riot.

Personally, I do not count speed or size of individual library/framework since it is the whole app or even ecosystem that matters. I use Rails at the backend. On the front-end Riot is coupled with Semantic UI, which is not light-weight, but it works for me.

In highlighting Riot, that beauty or simplicity has to come out to attract developers.

[tipiirai]

@pyros2097 we are not planning to do anything close to "reapp". Riot is just the "Platform" part on that stack. I hope reapp will switch from React to Riot though as a competitive advantage :)

[gregorypratt]

Size and speed are really important.

But as a developer the first thing I did was open dev tools and check the tag line!

I agree removing a size reference in the tag line would cause less questions. But size is big selling factor.

[tipiirai]

Maybe something like:

"A React-like (but ~12x smaller) user interface library"

[davidsalazar]

Call me crazy but I still like the word micro even though it's cliche.

[tipiirai]

Clowns _need_ be crazy!

"A React-like user interface microlibrary"

Works for me too.

[davidsalazar]

"A React-like user interface micro-library"

[gregorypratt]

What about:

"The Isomorphic User Interface Micro Library"

Custom tags • Tiny footprint • Virtual DOM • Full stack • IE8

[davidsalazar]

Like it, but drop ie8. Is that actually a selling point.

[gregorypratt]

IMO IE8 support is not a selling point and we should help the world move forward. But that's me, and most likely a separate discussion!

How about this?

"The Isomorphic User Interface Micro Library"
Custom tags • Virtual DOM • Full stack • Tiny footprint

[geordee]

Maybe replace Full Stack with React-Like, since we are planning to take the router out of the library.

Isomorphic User Interface Micro Library
React-like • Custom tags • Virtual DOM • Tiny footprint

[gregorypratt]

Ah, I was thinking full stack as server to client. Suppose it is a bit ambiguous.

Personally I'd like to remove the React reference (and free advertising!) since I think Riot is plenty good enough without it but understand the identity by comparison point.

Either way I'm happy with above! :-)

[tipiirai]

"A React-like user interface micro-library"

Custom tags • Virtual DOM • Isomorphic • Below 10k

---

• "React- like" was seen as a benefit (see this thread)
• Isomorphic is advanced stuff and not for everyone. I think it's not our major selling point

[davidsalazar]

Perhaps you need to make a poll somewhere on riotjs to figure out why people are choosing it lol.

if you start putting file size anywhere, you contributors are going to constantly be fighting to keep that codebase small which is not the most important part of riotjs imo. Everybody has their own reasons for choosing riotjs but I liked the simplicity of learning and using it, not that the codebase was under 3.5k. It was attractive no doubt, but definitely not the most important thing. Having a vague term like micro allows you all to keep the goal of keeping it small and simple while not having to worry about exceeding a certain file size.

[codeliner]

I liked the simplicity of learning and using it

That is definitily the most important selling point and no tagline can be good enough to explain it but your docs can! Most of my time I'm a PHP backend dev but for my own project I needed a smart JS lib to create a multipage UI served by a PHP backend. I worked with backbone and ember in the past and also looked at angular but no framework really convinced me because when you don't work with them every day you need to read the docs again and again to remember what's going on.
Riot on the other side is so simple (but powerful) that reading the docs once is enough forever.
Btw. I tend to agree with @gregorypratt that "React-like" should be removed. Sounds like yet another react copy ... But it isn't. It's better! I looked at React because of this tagline, but fortunately closed the tab in my browser after 1 min to continue read the Riot docs : -)
I love riot.mount. It enabled me to write my own compiler in PHP to prerender riot tags with PHP and inject data, constants etc. server side.
Just my two cent.

[gregorypratt]

I'm enjoying this thread!!

How about:

[r4j4h]

+1 to the simplicity aspects being a key selling point.

I actually do think IE8 is a good point to mention. Showing the breadth of support shows that the project seems stable and isn't going to just drop support and encourage fragmentation at a whim. It also discourages from eventually breaking IE8 support though. Plus if no one else is, it makes Riot stand out even more.

[tipiirai]

@gregorypratt your wishes are now fulfilled: https://muut.com/riotjs/

I purposely left out IE8 since I have a feeling the support is going to be dropped. It's just so hard.

[gregorypratt]

Oh cool thats excellent! that'll make me smile every time I go read the docs!

[katopz]

@geordee Did you happen to have nice hello world example for Riot+Semantic UI? :)

[JuanLuisClaure]

ok succes in integrating semantic-ui and riot. j's. I need help to translate query function to javascript. It's just the line of code that in it some element Li the tabs. ¿someone have already solved this?

[0xTunji]

@geordee Did you happen to have nice hello world example for Riot+Semantic UI? :)

[benepo]

Ref: https://github.com/Semantic-Org/Semantic-UI/issues/5560

[geordee]

It's been a while since I used both together. Here is a snippet from my old code.

package.json

  "devDependencies": {
    ...
    "jquery": "^2.2.1",
    ...
  }

In component:

<script type="es6">
  let initialize = () => {
    $('.ui.dropdown').dropdown({ on: 'hover' })
  }

  this.on('mount', initialize)
</script>

Again, not sure whether this will work with Riot today...