Describe the bug:
When a map have hp drain 6, just some 100 and 50 can drain a lot of hp. After that, just one miss and you lost. In osu stable it's not hard at this point.
Screenshots or videos showing encountered issue:
osu!lazer version:
2020.221.0
Logs:
please attach logs here, which are located at:
%AppData%/osu/logs(on Windows),~/.local/share/osu/logs(on Linux & macOS).
I'm on android
MTGPROD
All 26 comments
Raised as a concern before (#7606), was never reopened as a separate issue about the drain level itself (draining after break is tracked in #7607). Renamed for better searchability (not that I advocate for completely reverting to stable algorithm, maybe slightly less harsh drain will be ok too).
bdach
on 23 Feb 2020
Just reduce the difficulty because if you only do 100s or 50s and a few 300s the slightest miss and it's lost.
MTGPROD
on 23 Feb 2020
Just reduce the difficulty because if you only do 100s or 50s and a few 300s the slightest miss and it's lost.
After some testing, I think it's rather related to that the current HP drain implementation doesn't take into account how notes are spaced between each other time-wise instead of whether the difficulty is too high, as there are a lot of definitely passable HD6 maps. Not 100% sure though, I have not looked at the code related to this.
recapitalverb
on 23 Feb 2020
Especially since I speak well of hp drain 6 in particular because I tested scarlet rose which has 7 hp drain and I lose much less hp when you have a 100, 50 or miss (When I was around 75% and I had a lot of miss and well a 300 gave much more hp than hp drain 6). The problem is more complex
MTGPROD
on 23 Feb 2020
noticed this too, i came back to lazer after some time and after updating HP drain became much higher than stable. I liked the slightly lower drain of the previous release I was in, now it's way too aggressive.
FAB1150
on 23 Feb 2020
can give a headsup to this. played "Chi no Iro wa Kiiro" by Hollow Wings and Extra was pretty much one miss and a couple of 100s at the middle and you're dead
ghm12
on 24 Feb 2020
Please refrain from posting "confirmation / +1" comments as they don't really bring in much value - you can use comment reactions as means of support instead. We are well aware that the current drain algorithm is not exactly as was in stable and it was a conscious decision at the time of re-adding it. Suggestions on what should be done to change this situation are however welcome.
bdach
on 24 Feb 2020
Instead of using the lowest percentage attainable during a perfect play, I propose that the lowest percentage during _the worst possible no miss_ play (or slightly harsher like all 100s) should be used to determine the drain rate. This can make the drain more relaxed.
mcendu
on 25 Feb 2020
The 2020.225.0 update seems to fix the problem. It's your turn to test
MTGPROD
on 25 Feb 2020
bdach
on 25 Feb 2020
I'm going to keep this issue open until people are satisfied with the HP drain.
@mcendu using the worst possible play will make HP drain significantly more lenient, which isn't what we're aiming for. We want the drain rate to be rougher in these higher HP maps (HP>5); HP6 results in a minimum HP from drain of 62%.
The PR above raises the amount of HP awarded for GOODs from 1.5% to 2.5%, without lowering the drain rate.
smoogipoo
on 26 Feb 2020
So, if we make a 50. what happens? @smoogipoo
MTGPROD
on 26 Feb 2020
Currently, HP is decreased by 0.25%.
smoogipoo
on 26 Feb 2020
But, what is HitResult.Ok it is for mania/taiko or something ?
MTGPROD
on 26 Feb 2020
From hp drain 6 it's much more playable than before. Thanks @smoogipoo
MTGPROD
on 26 Feb 2020
But for specific maps that's very hard like before...
MTGPROD
on 26 Feb 2020
I hope this anecdotal case is all right to post here, apologies if not. I was playing this map on master and maintaining ~91-92% accuracy for the first minute, but my HP slowly dropped, leading to it bouncing around 20% by 1 minute in. This meant that when I hit two "meh"s within a small timespan I instantly failed the map with 92% accuracy.
I notice similar behavior with other maps too; some maps (due to the spacing of notes or BPM?) tend to have cases where your HP can drop to a very low percentage and then not recover while maintaining a "local" accuracy of >90%. Is this desired behavior?
aemino
on 3 Mar 2020
leaving my own anecdotal case as well
way too easy to fail the map (with DT and HP 6) towards the end of the chorus, struggle to get above half health the entire time despite maintaining a ~94% accuracy. I managed to lose about a quarter of my health in the ~1 second space between the end of the break and the next note. I instantly fail upon missing a note 58 combo later.
using the newest 2020.229.1 release for windows 10
whizvox
on 5 Mar 2020
Generalising this as drain has now been called both too harsh and too lenient, so clearly the user expectation is that drain will be exactly the same as stable (which, to emphasise, it might not necessarily end up being).
bdach
on 6 Mar 2020
no, drain just doesn't make sense and is inconsistent when comparing theoretical vs. actual drain.
in my previous post, I demonstrated an instance where drain was way too high with a map with HP6 and OD7. here's an instance where drain is too low in comparison.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSTHwT5ntAA
notice that the map is HP7 and OD7.5, but even after intentionally not playing for a second or two, the HP bar doesn't even go below the halfway point.
how can both the HP and OD values be higher, but in gameplay, the drain and HP reduction be much, much lower?
whizvox
on 6 Mar 2020
I'm not sure what "theoretical drain" is supposed to mean but sure. I have a slight feeling the other mechanical changes (like removing sliderend leniency) could have a knock-on effect on how drain feels (since it's based on percentage of HP on a perfect play) but I have no concrete evidence to back that claim up at this point.
bdach
on 6 Mar 2020
And I don't think there should be passive drain: https://youtu.be/Wyc-vVYsGOo
huupoke12
on 7 Mar 2020
@huupoke12 see discussion at #7370.
bdach
on 7 Mar 2020
i feel as if on hp10 in its current state that goods and mehs give too much hp and allow the user to survive hitting a lot of goods and mehs
i think hp drain should be lessened a bit and goods and mehs should have a slight nerf in amount of hp given
igontusuwu
on 17 Aug 2020
after more testing, i think it's more of a problem on high density maps since there's way more opportunities to gain hp
since lazer can detect note density, maybe we should use that to adjust hp so that high density parts have harsher drain and lower density parts have lesser drain
igontusuwu
on 23 Aug 2020
testing in mania with a hp7 map, poorer judgements give too much hp in the more dense sections to the point where it overrides all the misses you will get and it allows you to survive by getting 55% accuracy which allows mashing for hard passes you shouldn't get
adjusting/accounting for the previous 2 comments i made, in all modes expect taiko:
hp should account for map section density to increase/decrease hp accordingly
hp drain should be nerfed somewhat to prevent draining to 0 in low density sections
the good, ok, and meh judgements should give less hp to prevent poorer accuracy from passing through
map i used for testing: https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/1034114#mania/2162156
igontusuwu
on 21 Sep 2020
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Most helpful comment
I hope this anecdotal case is all right to post here, apologies if not. I was playing this map on
masterand maintaining ~91-92% accuracy for the first minute, but my HP slowly dropped, leading to it bouncing around 20% by 1 minute in. This meant that when I hit two "meh"s within a small timespan I instantly failed the map with 92% accuracy.I notice similar behavior with other maps too; some maps (due to the spacing of notes or BPM?) tend to have cases where your HP can drop to a very low percentage and then not recover while maintaining a "local" accuracy of >90%. Is this desired behavior?