Nixpkgs: NixOS: default to Gnome

[tycho01]

Looking at an old Tweet, it seems there was some consensus that it would be nice to have the NixOS iso default to using Gnome, yet for legacy reasons still used KDE.

Now, in 18.03, I came in as a new user to find this is still the case.

I'm not sure if new users are expected to somehow install in a different manner, but to make the experience more appealing, I hope it would be possible to default to Gnome instead.

[davidak]

I use GNOME on NixOS now for some weeks and it seams pretty stable and usable. I had issues with Xfce after updating to 18.03 (that i reported, but not fixed as of now).

Since Ubuntu uses GNOME by default now, it might be a good time for us to do the same.

It's important to use GDM as of now, since locking the screen don't work with lightdm (also known).

We might want to default to a very lightweight desktop, so it works also on older machines, but it should be stable and usable. Xfce is not. MATE is not modern and i don't think it represents NixOS good.

[FRidh]

Looking at an old Tweet, it seems there was some consensus that it would be nice to have the NixOS iso default to using Gnome, yet for legacy reasons still used KDE.

I don't see any such consensus on the tweet you're referring to. Are you sure it's the right one? In any case, I suggest discussing such changes on the mailing list instead.

[Anton-Latukha]

1. KDE is feature superior platform to GNOME applications. GNOME apps are mostly too simplified.
2. KDE is aimed at power users (NixOS). KDE can behave as UNITY or GNOME: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1i7jAtHcw4
3. KDE is more lightweight. Recently tested on 15-17-year old PC. On NVidia NV20 card from 2001. GNOME could not even normally unlock display and run. MATE had a visual glitches. KDE UI is working great, UI works ridiculously snappy with that PC and KDE looks, and my aunt on that card watches movies in 720p through SMplayer.
4. QT5 is superior framework. Can you share GTK apps doing this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTp2P4pDt-A. Is GTK used in automotive industry, or can it run on microcontroller: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ySTyBz2F0k.
5. C++ way better fits to develop Desktop Environment and GUI applications. That is why smaller KDE community keeps up with GTK large numbers.
6. KWin is just superior to Mutter. GNOME graphics is heavily single threaded.
7. GNOME even by design drops frames during network state changes, desktop notifications, and more https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=GNOME-3-Hungry-For-Pi, and as you see - from Raspberry video chip developer GNOME is too heavy to run on Raspberry Pi. While KDE runs easily.

[Anton-Latukha]

1. GNOME constantly breaks APIs and code integrations in words of DE developers. Many things are hard coded. GNOME hardcode and not caring was complained from Elementary, Mate, and Budgie.

That is why Ikey Doherty started rewriting Budgie from GTK to QT5, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J85OBqT51ZM. And reasons explained here: https://budgie-desktop.org/2017/01/25/kicking-off-budgie-11/
While also they updated the official page and plan to use QT5 and C++ https://budgie-desktop.org/about/.
But at this point he decided to turn his life, and decided to support old Budgie for a while. https://plus.google.com/+IkeyDoherty/posts/d2PsYPknqSi

1. GNOME just got bigger support numbers, it does not mean it is superior.
   KDE is like some ethnic minority that receives more and more unfair indignity at every turn.

[Anton-Latukha]

1. GNOME in no way superior, it wins in userbase, because most people and companies somehow still love and think only about GTK and GNOME. That is why pools would always show in it's favor. And still today unpaid KDE contributors outpace GNOME development https://pointieststick.wordpress.com/.

I am for NixOS supporting KDE.

Everyone is GTK/GNOME. It is written in C, single threaded, design and features are as flexible as backless stool, and it extends with sending users to use unsupported third-party JS extensions on top, not supporting different sizes of interfaces, not cross platform, has hard code for itself, so other GTK DEs need to pretend they are GNOME, and no graphical fall-backs. Did I miss something futuristic?
It's high-level language - Vala - was left to die (supported only due efforts of tiny team of Elementary desktop and used mostly inside that team).

1. Every distribution that uses GNOME is pretty much the same, they only can change theme and install 3-rd party extensions.

2. What happened to competition? In former days KDE3/GNOME2 competition was very healthy and beneficial to desktop Linux.

3. NixOS is distinctive. It is in line with few other distinctive distros that use KDE as a main DE (KDE Neon, BSD systems, Kubuntu).

4. NixOS has a great chance attracting KDE developers and collaborating with KDE Neon team directly.

5. For GNOME we are too strange and too small, distro to care, they care about Red Hat and Canonical. As NixOS becomes more known - it would attract KDE devs, and they would work for NixOS needs.

I agree that GNOME is common. But GNOME not superior.
I showed arguments that KDE is superior.

---

1. I am myself was improving GNOME packages recently https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/pull/41365. And I can say that GNOME is in great shape in NixOS. And it requires only one line from you to install.

[aexoxea]

I'm a very new NixOS user who has yet to contribute here, so please weight the below accordingly.

Coming from an Arch background, it was nice to have access to a graphical environment (and particularly a graphical browser and partitioner) to do the installation. Being a KDE user, it was also nice to see my favourite DE.

However, I could have done just as well with any DE, since:

• The decision to install NixOS went beyond what DE was used on the install ISO.
• There's only a few applications involved, and the graphical environment is only in use for a comparitively short time (because it's only being used for the installation).
• I have a choice of what DE to install on the target system (and indeed, no DE is installed 'by default' based on what is in the generated configuration.nix).
• Some of KDE's tools refuse to run as root anyway (e.g. Dolphin).

I agree that the DE should be both aesthetic and well-functioning. That said, as Plasma 5 is already integrated (and pretty up-to-date) on the current install ISO, wouldn't it be easier to start with improving that with theming/configuration if there are specific concerns?

Also, if there are challenges with integrating updated components to the install ISO, that might be a reason to stick with Plasma 5, since it now offers LTS releases. I couldn't tell after a cursory search whether GNOME has similar; does it?

[davidak]

@Anton-Latukha like @aexoxea correctly said, no DE get installed by default. So you have to choose which one you want. The DE of the installer live CD is just for testing and installation. So we should use a DE that many linux users are familiar with (like GNOME, Xfce or KDE, no window manager :D).

[globin]

Since choosing a DE explicitly is necessary when installing I don't see anything we can do here except for changing the default in the graphical ISO. I would argue doing that would only make sense if we have larger problems with KDE and we don't have that, but rather a history of GNOME being broken in a few cases. Wrt to the above I'm closing this; if I have missed anything or there are specific thing you see that we should change or do feel free to reopen or create new issues!

[Mouvedia]

Could someone pick up #12150?