Name-suggestion-index: Include no-longer existing brand, especially ones popular in OSM

[matkoniecz]

Obviously it should be distributed separately, not as source for suggestion but rather for validator complaints.

It would also help with maintaining index - there are some unclear case like

  "amenity/bank|Banco Popular": {
    "count": 704,
    "countryCodes": ["pr", "us", "vi"],
    "match": ["amenity/bank|Popular"],
    "tags": {
      "amenity": "bank",
      "brand": "Banco Popular",
      "brand:wikidata": "Q537259",
      "brand:wikipedia": "es:Banco Popular Español",
      "name": "Banco Popular",
      "name:en": "Popular Bank",
      "official_name": "Banco Popular Español",
      "official_name:en": "Spanish Popular Bank",
      "operator": "Banco Santander",
      "operator:wikidata": "Q806215",
      "operator:wikipedia": "en:Banco Santander"
    }
  },

that is mapped 400+ in Spain, 200+ in Dominicana, company is described as gone on Wikipedia. It would be nice to know whatever someone checked is this brand is still used in Spain or not.

Other examples: Banca Intesa - is this brand still in use or is OSM outdated?

{
  "tags": {
    "amenity": "bank",
    "brand": "Allied Bank",
    "brand:wikidata": "Q4732555",
    "brand:wikipedia": "en:Allied Banking Corporation",
    "name": "Allied Bank"
  },
  "countryCodes": [
    "pk",
    "ph"
  ]
}

is also described as defunct

[Adamant36]

That would be really helpful. There's been a couple of banks I've ran across that were either closed or consolidated with other brands and I just left them in the database because I wasn't sure what to do with them (I think that was actually one of them), but it would be worth saving the entries somewhere for re-tagging efforts later. I don't think just adding them the exclude file is a good option.

Although, maybe they could be added to the generic list so people wont add them to iD Editor anymore and it would be saving them so new issues won't be opened for them when the index is rebuilt or otherwise.

[bhousel]

Good idea!
Maybe we could add something like a "deprecated": true property to these entries.
Maybe also "upgradeTo" : "amenity/bank|whatever" so that iD can do the upgrades.

[matkoniecz]

And maybe also notSimpleUpgrade (or something better) where not all were transformed into a new brand?

[tas50]

There's a lot of these in the US as well. Toys R Us and Payless shoes are EVERYWHERE and they're both gone.

[matkoniecz]

Toys R Us

This is an interesting case and reminder that brand may be only partially gone - it is certainly still present in Poland.

Maybe something similar to countryCodes? Though countryCodesWhereNoLongerPresent is probably too long.

[Adamant36]

There's still Payless Shoe stores in malls in a few places also. I was just in one the other day.

Semi related, i've been thinking something like a "countrynotpresent" tag would be good for global brands, to list where they aren't located if its a shorter list then where they are.

[tas50]

Toys R Us is pretty weird since they licenses their brand globally and the folks that licensed the brand are continuing to run them. At some point I want to get a MR challenge to clean those up, but I need to research exactly where they shutdown and where they stayed open. Payless is in the middle of a global shutdown. They're not even trying to restructure like Toys R Us. They're just calling it quits and closing all the stores.

[Adamant36]

"Payless is in the middle of a global shutdown. They're not even trying to restructure like Toys R Us. They're just calling it quits and closing all the stores."

According to a CNN article a few weeks ago, "A spokeperson said its international franchises and Latin American stores will not be affected."

I guess Toys R Us is going to try and make a comeback with a new name. It should be interesting to see how that goes. In the meantime, I doubt they will inhabit the old stores. So its probably worth cleaning the ones up that can be. How does it work on
Map Roulette for those types of things? Like, is there a way to keep people from deleting the legitimate ones while they are in the process of getting rid of the bad ones or is it "all or nothing"?

[matkoniecz]

See https://osm.mathmos.net/ghosts/ for a project collecting brands gone from UK by @rjw62.

[matkoniecz]

Comercial Mexicana is one more case of a defunct brand.

[matkoniecz]

My current idea is to have "defunct": yes field.

It would cause entry to be removed from default distribution file, become added to a new distribution file specially for defunct entries.

Cases where brand is gone in some countries and continue to exist in other would have two entries, one with "defunct": yes field, one without. Both would have country codes restriction specified.

[Adamant36]

That might work. Although I think "desolved" might be a better word. Its how closed down companies are usually refered to. Although, I guess it doesn't really matter. Either word works.

[matkoniecz]

Maybe gone or not_existing as the key name would be even better?

[Adamant36]

Is this something that will be added to OSM database or stay in the name index?

[matkoniecz]

That would be entry in the name index. It could be used by validators to flag entries that are likely to be outdated.

[Adamant36]

Then I guess it doesn't matter and your suggestions are as good as mine. So whichever you prefer.

[matkoniecz]

PR opened - see https://github.com/osmlab/name-suggestion-index/pull/2562.

EDIT: PR was rejected and it was stated that Wikidata should be used. It may work, but I am not fan of this solution (some of my reasons were stated in PR discussion). So I am not planning to implement Wikidata-based version.