Minetest_game: Add berries

[cx384]

What do you think abut adding berries?
In my opinion they would fit well in current minetest game. For trees there are already apples, but bushes don't grow fruits. I do not think about special or different berries, probably one universal berry item will suffice. It could increase the food diversity and with the implementation of jam it also could be used to make the vessels mod more useful.

[TumeniNodes]

I don't think this is a bad idea at all. Why not?
It adds to food sources in survival mode and has other potential uses
why not one type for bush and another for acacia bush?

[benrob0329]

We already have bushes, I don't see why we shouldn't. The question is what kind of berries would look right on our bushes?

[paramat]

Acacia bushes may not have edible berries IRL. The normal bushes seem to be more suitable for berries, but note that the normal bushes are somewhat generic and also appear in very cold snowy grassland, almost tundra, so the berry type needs to be suitable for these climates.

[ExeterDad]

Huckleberries, much like blueberries grow on mountains and are tolerant to cooler temperatures. They can be red or very dark blue like blueberries, and grow on bushes. They were also used as a source of dye long ago. Those might be something to consider?

[TumeniNodes]

For God's sake..., just call them "berries" and "acacia_berries", same as other related aspects are named.
A random mix of IRL and NIRL is good..., cuz it's a "game"
No need to be super-specific. If a mod later wishes to add a variety of different berries eventually, it will happen.

All users need to know is "Look, berries!" they can help with hunger a little right off the start, and maybe be used for a dye or something as well. Basically it is adding just another easy food source like apples.
Now we just need a "berry bucket"

[paramat]

Not for Acacia, MT biomes are roughly realistic. We're trying to make flora non-generic so species is good. Related to that perhaps we should make 'bushes' non-generic, if only in the description.
But anyway, i'm still undecided on this, and low priority.

[raymoo]

@TumeniNodes It's not convincing to me that this improves survival gameplay since it's already easy enough to farm lots of food, which is only occasionally needed anyway unless you PvP a lot. If MTG had a harsh enough hunger mechanic and farming took longer to set up, berries might have a use as an early-game food source.

[Ezhh]

I'd like this to happen, but I've yet to find a mod that adds berries in a way I like. Does anyone know of a mod that handles this well?

It's not good to add berries to a plant/tree that the player can eat if the real world equivalent isn't edible. That's sort of like asking kids to munch on things that might not be good for them.

[TumeniNodes]

another late night wake up for me

Not gonna find any IRL berries in the Savannah... seems anything you eat there will either kill you, or make you wish it did.

[BlueTangsRock]

Maybe there could be a small chance that a berry bush could yeild a poisonous berry instead of a regular, harmless one.

And the poisonous berries would do a slight amount of damage to the player when eaten, similar to the red mushrooms.

Though there should be some other uses for berries other than consumption, for example making certain dyes, so the regular and poisonous berries could be a bit more useful.

[paramat]

~-1~ If we add another food type it's best something that adds variety, not another fruit. This also means yet another bush when we already have 3 covering cold, temperate and hot biomes.
I feel berries is best left to optional mods.
EDIT more neutral now.

[Ezhh]

And I disagree.

[raymoo]

I feel like new food types should be meaningfully distinct gameplay-wise. That means that at least some players should want to change their decision based on the inclusion of the new food. Some ways that could happen:

• The new food is obtainable only in certain regions
• The method of harvesting / farming / crafting the food is different than others
• Eating it has effects different from existing food

The current foods in MTG are sort of distinct, since apples are available with exploring and no investment, while bread requires farm space and a steady supply of fuel. However it doesn't really matter because if you go straight for bread production there's probably only like 10 minutes where you might need apples, and that's only if you take damage. I think hunger mechanics are needed to make new foods meaningful beyond roleplay value. Without a sufficient level of hunger difficulty, the differences between producing different food don't really matter that much.

[Ezhh]

MTG is, in my opinion, extremely low on content. There's been some good additions, but berry bushes are a nice way to add a little colour and variety. Normal bushes don't add much variety (trees have leaves that are close to identical after all), whereas berry bushes do. This really isn't just about them being a food source, though the potential for that obviously gives them a use beyond decoration as well.

[raymoo]

MTG is lower on game mechanics IMO. Decoration is nice but it would be better if a new food source actually changes how people play the game. Doing both with the same amount of new items / nodes = less bloat, a quality that seems to be important to MTG development direction.

[Ezhh]

... seems to be important to MTG development direction

I'd like to think I have a say on that, since I am an MTG dev. I'm not against the idea of food being handled better/differently (since it's basically not handled in any meaningful way right now), but that's still not a reason to avoid adding new content that is visually different and adds to the environment.

[raymoo]

Ok, I think it's fair to say that more decoration without new other stuff is fine. I just wish that MTG was more than a building game.

[Ezhh]

You are not alone there. It's just about finding ways to make it more that everyone will agree on.

[raymoo]

If everyone needs to agree on an addition to MTG then I think berries would need to be in a different game, since @paramat disagrees with adding berries. I think it would be even harder to add new gameplay mechanics.

[Ezhh]

The comment was more general and was related to that I feel people's opinions should be considered if MTG is to ever be "more than a building game", not that literally every person has to agree about whether we should add a quite small and simple bit of new content.

[raymoo]

Sorry, my bad.

[paramat]

~raymoo nevermind my -1, that can't stop anything alone, other core devs can support something to get it merged.~

[Desour]

some ideas for berries

german (ignore this) | botanic name | english
-------------------------- | ----------------------------- | ---------
jostabeere | Ribes × nidigrolaria | jostaberry
rote johannisbeere (+farbvariante weiß) | Ribes rubrum | redcurrant / red currant
schwarze johannisbeere | Ribes nigrum | blackcurrant / black currant
stachelbeere | Ribes uva-crispa(/grossularia) | gooseberry
holunder | Sambucus | elder / elderberry
sanddorn | Hippophae rhamnoides | common sea buckthorn
heidelbeere | Vaccinium myrtillus | European blueberry / common bilberry / blue whortleberry
preiselbeere | Vaccinium vitis-idaea | lingonberry / partridgeberry / cowberry
brombeere | Rubus sectio Rubus | blackberry
schlehe (schlehbeere/schlehdorn/...) | Prunus spinosa | blackthorn / sloe
felsenbirne | Amelanchier | shadbush / shadwood / ...
himbeere | Rubus idaeus | raspberry
hagebutte (pf:hundsrose) | Rosa canina | rose hip / rosehip / rose haw / rose hep (p: Rosa canina / dog rose)
apfelbeere | Aronia | chokeberries
wunderbeere | Synsepalum dulcificum | miracle fruit / miracle berry / miraculous berry / sweet berry
vogelbeere / eberesche | Sorbus aucuparia | rowan / mountain-ash
haselnuss (gemeine hasel) | Corylus avellana | common hazel
eiben | Taxus | yews
erdbeere | Fragaria | strawberry

[cx384]

additions

german (ignore this) | botanic name | english | color | fully grown height | usage | biom
------------ | ------------ | ------------- | ------------- | ------------- | ------------- | -------------
Kornelkirsche / Herlitze / ...| Cornus mas | Cornelian cherry / ... | red | 4-8 | food
Schwarze Tollkirsche | Atropa belladonna | belladonna / deadly nightshade / ... | red / black | 0-2 | poison
Großfrüchtige Moosbeere / Kraanbeere / ... | Vaccinium macrocarpon / Vaccinium oxycoccos /... | Cranberries / Bearberries / ... | red | 0-1 | food
Gemeiner Bocksdorn / Teufelszwirn / Chinesische Wolfsbeere / ... | Lycium barbarum | Chinese wolfberry / Himalayan goji / red medlar /... | red | 1-4 | food

Not every berry plant looks like a proper bush (e.g. strawberry, belladonna, blueberry, cranberry maybe blackberry and raspberry). But there are 2 very common bushes with a suitable height and special attributes.

1. Sea buckthorn (maybe there are more names for this plant): about 1-6 m high, yellow/orangeish, eatable and could grow in savanna (likes sandy dirt, gravelly dirt, dunes and steppes) → acacia bush berry
2. Yew: old plants 10-20 m high, but mature at about 0,5 m, red, poisons, conifer → pine bush berry

Additionally, (maybe several) berries for the default bush would be nice (at least one blue or black).
My favorites: elder, blackthorn, shadbush, rowan and rose hip

And maybe cactus pears.

[random-geek]

I assume this should be closed now?

[TumeniNodes]

I assume this should be closed now?

Not delete but, you should be able to close it.
often you can just make a ref to the Merged PR in the comment before you close it.

This helps leave bread crumbs for future followers... or people with way too much time on their hands

[Ezhh]

ab1a79b13c5739d73083236ca29869b60ff3b380

[Desour]

Why was this already closed? #2180 just added one type of berry, imo there should be multiple. There are many berries that are more interesting than blueberries, eg. sloes, elderberries or common sea buckthorn. MTG can become better with more sorts of berries, ergo this issue makes sense remaining open.

[Ezhh]

Closing the issue doesn't prevent PRs from being made.

[paramat]

DS-Minetest, we don't need multiple types of berry when so many other basics are missing from MTG, effort is best directed elsewhere. Think about priorities and feature balance.