Minetest_game: Bows

[TumeniNodes]

This is just an idea/suggestion or feature request for discussion atm.

Add/Introduce bows to tools.lua or as a mod in MTG

Q.(why?) A. Bows are useful for hunting and fighting. Bows add enhancement to gameplay.

---

--Bow-Types--

--wooden_bow (maybe different wood types add different strengths/durability?)
--bronze_bow
--iron_bow
--steel_bow
--mese_bow (possibly?, as a power-bow. only avail after a certain level)

---

--Recipes--

{empty} {material} {string}

{material} {empty} {string}

{empty} {material} {string}

---

--Arrow-Types-- (by arrowhead)

--wood -----
--stone |
--bronze |
--copper |
--diamond |
--gold |--(wood is weakest, mese is strongest in reference to damage)
--iron |
--mese |
--obsidian |
--steel |
--tin -----

---

--Recipes--

{empty} {empty} {feather}

{empty} {stick} {empty}

{.. shard} {empty} {empty}

Question is, which bow mod is best suited for MTG inclusion?
or, should an entirely new [bows]-code be written?

But, should bows be an additional mod, or should they be part of the tools.lua code?

Also notable is, a feather item needs to be added for crafting arrows..
how are feathers obtained? from chickens? [?]
could there be other uses for feathers to help justify adding them? (as if arrows is not enough)

[ghost]

Wielditem animations would be good for shooting the arrow.

[Desour]

hunting and fighting

MTG doesn't include hunting and fighting, the sword is for digging leaves and co.. Shooting arrows would need some similar usage, eg. tnt arrows.

At the moment bows don't make much sense since https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5212 isn't done yet.
But crossbows would maybe make sense.
There would be a bow/crossbow/throwing api needed.

[theraven262]

I would +1, but projectile physics are so badly affected by lag that this would do no good.
Also, we need the wielditem animations support, without that they would be overall too static and would basically serve as ranged swords (technically speaking).
Feathers? Well that is easy, make them dropped from leaves with a chance.

[TumeniNodes]

@DS-Minetest maybe better to just keep this idea in the air at least, until #5212 can be implemented then.

@theraven262 I have to admit, I had not thought about the lag on servers.
Feathers, dropping from leaves? hehe, your world sounds very... interesting.

[theraven262]

Hey! That idea was not originally mine, i saw it on some server, guess it came from the fact that birds are nested in tree branches, so leaves should contain some feathers at least.

[C1ffisme]

I don't like the idea of too many bows or arrows.

First off, bows work because of the tension in the wooden limbs of the bow, not because of how springy the string itself is. A metal bow _could_ work, but if you had the ability to pull the bow limbs at all, you would probably just bend the limbs. That's why plastic and wood are good materials for bows, and not metal. (Although, there are some springy metals, maybe those could work?)

Secondly, as for arrows, I don't feel like we need so many. I think it's a better tiering system than having tons of bows, but I don't think we need more than 3 kinds of arrow levels. (Probably stone, steel and mese.) Any other tiers should have special uses.

[TumeniNodes]

The materials in this list are just reference.
While I do agree about the types of bows, and using a reality based thinking..., this is Minetest, so...
Bows could be restricted to wood types, and set the strength levels that way, but then people will start complaining about not having unrealistic types as stone, etc... But then again, they can always make mods for those.
For the wood bows rankings, pine lowest, junglewood the highest (mese the ultimate power bow)

I like the idea of keeping anything added to MTG "basic", and let modders take it that step further.
Features directly tied into MTG should remain basic/simple, and not bloated.

As for arrows, it could be kept down to the ages of history. Wood, stone, obsidian, bronze, and so on with mese as a specialty (same for the bows with mese)

Each type could also have the possibility to be upgraded, maybe like 2 times before the next rated material is available?

[paramat]

The network lag of projectiles could be a big issue, meaning that clientside simulation would be needed, so added 'non-trivial'.

[TumeniNodes]

I thought there was an issue or PR in regards to wielditem animation in the past? Can't seem to locate it.
I know that requires engine work though.

clientside simulation for projectiles sounds right, but that will also be an involved project.
So, if I'm not wrong, sounds as if anything coded should keep all these together in one project/API?

[Ekdohibs]

Projectiles are usually with a fixed speed at the beginning, and an acceleration equal to g. In that case, since the acceleration does not change, we already have client simulation of the movement for free.

[paramat]

Oh yeah, particles. The appearence of the particle would need to be coded to look like an arrow moving away from the player.

[Fixer-007]

String has no more uses in current minetest_game, you craft wool with cotton now, this is highly suggestive to move this issue forward ;)

[TekhnaeRaav]

Throwing my opinion up there. I do think that the bows should be kept very simple
(wood_bow, and mese_bow). Also the arrows,(flint_arrow and steel_arrow).

And yes @Fixer-007, that does pose an issue, but I think that we should just use cotton for the string of the bow.

[paramat]

Thinking on it, the arrow particle could simply be an exact rear-view of an arrow, at the speed it moves this will be good enough.

[TumeniNodes]

Thinking on it, the arrow particle could simply be an exact rear-view of an arrow, at the speed it moves this will be good enough.

I was unsure why the current method used in the couple of existing bow mods did not suffice.
So this seems doable, currently. Just a matter of, (as I stated originally) take a look at the existing bow mods, and see where they might be improved? Or code an entirely new, original method?

As far as the action of drawing the bow, there is one mod which somewhat duplicates the method used in Minecraft, it seems just the speed between draw points is faster and using more than 3 stage images in Minecraft.
I am not saying we would be looking to duplicate MC's rendition but, afterall, how "different" could the action of a bow be done, in any case.

The crafting is easy, the materials, etc. are already available so that is a non-issue

I think someone mentioned also, requiring a use for bows. Well, a use for swords was found so...
I mean, if swords are part of the basic "tools", there really is no reason bows cannot be as well. Bows were considered basic tools of necessity for quite some time in history.

here is the mod I was interested in at the time I originally posted this https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18310&hilit=minecraft+bows

[paramat]

Anyone know of any good MT bow mods?

[C1ffisme]

I coded a prototype of a mod that actually allows for drawback, I'll see if I can get it onto Github.

[Fixer-007]

Here is quick search of bows mods (probably missing some):
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=14384
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=18310
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=11511
bows from LegendOfMinetest
bows from LordOfTheTest
etc etc, I've personally have not used none of them.

[paramat]

SmallJoker is working on a new one that uses raycast.
EDIT: It's a bit crude though.

[C1ffisme]

@paramat This is my hacky bows mod that allows for drawback: https://github.com/C1ffisme/bows

Hopefully we won't ever have to use this kind of hack if we get better API support for holding down mouse buttons and changing textures of items dynamically. But it was an interesting problem to solve.

[paramat]

The drawback isn't very important, SmallJoker's mod just has 2 states, undrawn and drawn, with a change from one to the other on a mouseclick, that is good enough as well as being simple and lightweight, maybe it could have a delay added to limit rapid fire. We don't need to copy MC here with it's animation, there's too much attention on the drawback animation relative to other more important aspects.

[C1ffisme]

We don't need to copy MC here with it's animation, there's too much attention on the drawback animation relative to other more important aspects.

I'm fine with this as long as we fix this kind of thing in the future, because nice-looking graphics are a priority to me.

[rubenwardy]

This doesn't make sense before adding mobs

[Fixer-007]

Unless PVP on servers.

[paramat]

And mods provide mobs. After all we do have swords without mobs.

[paramat]

Is there core dev support for this?

[Ezhh]

Neither for or against. I don't think it should be a priority either way.

[Fixer-007]

Mobs first...

[NathanSalapat]

I know some of the bow mods let you shoot arrows that place torches or fire. That could be a good use case, or shooting grappling hooks.

[Ezhh]

If there is no dev support and so it is closed, why is it on the roadmap? If there is no dev support, why was it ever added to the roadmap to begin with?