Matomo: Remove commit 4e47c8 (Remove Tibet from the map)

[fengkaijia]

Please remove commit 4e47c8aba3bf146292f6e9d38aa0151c383e6c33.

This commit deeply hurt the Chinese Piwik community and should be immediately removed from Piwik.

[fengkaijia]

Maps should not base on points of views but reflect the current situation of the world which should include the simple fact that not a single country in the world officially recognized Tibet as an independent country.

[mattab]

good point @fengkaijia

but in our case, we are not even a single country... we are the Internet. We are the human community! It will be a challenge to find status quo when learning to live together, but challenging our world view is important. We are not a country, we are the Internets the network that unifies us all, brothers of the earth!

[fengkaijia]

@mattab The following is the result of a 2010 online vote by the show Larry King Live on CNN. Over 90% of the Internet didn't agree that Tibet should be an independent country.

Challenging the would view doesn't mean we could ignore the voice of vast majority. There are also groups of people in the US seeking secession, but should we remove Alaska, Texas, Vermont, etc. from the US map? Absolutely No.

[kenny666111]

I agree.

[tolbkni]

Deeply agree.

[pandarison]

I agree.

[codepiano]

+1

[mattab]

Looks like we can also remove Alaska from the US map with a free Alaska commit

maybe there is similar recent history of oppression in Alaska?

More info & context https://github.com/piwik/piwik/issues/6994#issuecomment-69875712

More information about Tibet

That's true that Tibet officially beyond to China, since the military annexation in 1950. China invaded Tibet in 1950. Its occupation has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Tibetans and the imprisonment and torture of thousands more.

After a failed uprising against Chinese rule in 1959, Tibet’s political and spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, fled into exile in India followed by tens of thousands of Tibetans.

Inside its borders and across the world, Tibetans have never stopped believing Tibet is a nation. Since 1959, they have continued to oppose and resist China's rule and China has responded with intense repression.

In 2014, US think tank Freedom House ranked Tibet among the twelve worst countries in the world for repression of political and civil rights.

Geography

• 'Tibet' refers to the three original provinces of U-Tsang, Kham and Amdo.
• When the Chinese refer to Tibet, they invariably mean the Tibet Autonomous Region or TAR, which includes only U-Tsang.
• The Chinese renamed Amdo as the province of Qinghai and Kham was incorporated into the Chinese provinces of Sichuan, Gansu and Yunnan.

Here are just some of the challenges faced by Tibetans as a result of China's occupation.

Economic discrimination.

• In many places, Tibetans are a minority as a result of China's encouragement of ethnic Chinese migration to Tibet.
• The language of business in Tibet is now Chinese. Many Tibetans are not literate in Chinese and are disadvantaged in business and the jobs market.
• Most Tibetans work in agricultural sector while most economic activity outside of agriculture is controlled by the central government or state owned corporations.
• Most tourist activity is located in urban centres where the main employees are ethnic Chinese migrants.
• The Chinese government has forced thousands of Tibetans to abandon their traditional rural nomadic lifestyle and move into new housing colonies or towns. Many of these people do not have the skills or experience to compete for jobs in the urban environment.

Religious suppression

• Since 1949, the Chinese have destroyed over 6,000 Tibetan Buddhist monasteries and shrines.
• By 1978 only 8 monasteries and 970 monks and nuns remained in the TAR.
• The number of monks and nuns allowed to enter monasteries and nunneries is limited. Any reference or images of the Dalai Lama are banned.
• The Chinese government places officials in every monastery to monitor and often to control religious activity.

Political oppression

• The Chinese have responded to uprisings with extreme violence and around 300,000 Chinese soldiers are posted in Tibet.
• Tibetans are subject to intense surveillance of their daily activities and communications.
• China has repeatedly violated UN conventions through extensive use of torture against Tibetan political prisoners - often monks or nuns.
• Tibet is governed directly by the Chinese Communist Party in Beijing. No Tibetan has ever been appointed Party Secretary - the most senior government post - in the TAR.

We are not picking on China in particular!

We treat all human rights violations equally. We do not support the United States' past support of dictators and its more recent abuse of prisoners. We do not support the UK government's use of Piwik to spy on its citizens. We do not support Israel's bi-annual bombing of Gaza, nor Hamas' acts of terrorism. We support no act of violence or oppression.

There is only one thing Piwik supports: peace. We hope you will use Piwik to further the presence of peace in the world and we hope you too will stand up against any injustice you see.

"The thing that we need in the world today is a group of men and women who will stand up for right and to be opposed to wrong, wherever it is. A group of people who have come to see that some things are wrong, whether they're never caught up with. And some things are right, whether nobody sees you doing them or not." - Martin Luther King Jr

[pandarison]

Maybe there is similar recent history of oppression in Tibet? Have you been there?
On Aug 15, 2014, at 23:29, Matthieu Aubry [email protected] wrote:

Looks like we can also remove Alaska from the US map with a free Alaska commit

maybe there is similar recent history of oppression in Alaska?

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

[hutushen222]

@mattab yes, the internet is a no boundary country, but in the real world Tibet is belonging to China, +1 for revert 4e47c8a

[qiuai]

I agree.

[zzcworld]

Open source software should not be a place for a single developer to express their political demands. Besides, this commit is not based on fact and hurts deeply the Chinese piwik community. I'm pretty sure that @mattab is not willing to see another fork because of this, so I support removing this commit.

[binaryoung]

Deeply agree.+1

[peanode]

Deeply agree +1

[jeehou]

Deeply agree +1

[JokerQyou]

I'm not saying which view of world is better or true, but this commit simply breaks the basic law here in China. Not only will it hurt Chinese piwik community, it might also prevent some users from using piwik, considering it's probably illegal.

[khlipeng]

Tibei and Taiwan should be a part of China

[mars333]

Deeply agree +1

[fordguo]

+1 ,it's basic in china.

[joewulf]

fucking asshole

[JokerQyou]

@joewulf Please hold your anger and talk friendly, as offensive words will do nothing but break the discussion.

[joewulf]

You simply can't reason with the 'Pride and Prejudice'

[joewulf]

that piece of shit even remove Hainan from China in the detail map.

[sgiehl]

@joewulf please respect the github terms of service
If you would like to have any change in Piwik feel free to create a Pull Request.

[joewulf]

@sgiehl I'm sorry for my word, but not sorry for doing that.
NO PULL REQUEST CAN CHANGE A BIASED MIND.
That commit is just a personal decision.

[sgiehl]

NO PULL REQUEST CAN CHANGE A BIASED MIND.

Guess that applies to you as well.
Insult and hate are imho no acceptable ways of facing people with another opinion or mind.

[joewulf]

@sgiehl
Not gonna count on it to make any change.
Just speak out my voice and point out the simple fact: that commit is just a political act and respect no reality.
No need to remove the commit which lasts so many years, keep it to infinity.

[sunzhongmou]

This issue opened on Aug 15, 2014, and today is July 31, 2017.
It's so sad for Piwik performs unprofessional this way.

Refuse to using it anymore!!!

[sgiehl]

@sunzhongmou this is an open source project. Feel free to create a pull reuqest.

[chaomao]

confused about this issue, does repo owner want to pretend deaf and ignore other people's opinion? That's funny because it remind me the kids behavior. :)
Open software should be away from politics and be purely tech, especially map software should respect country boundary.
If you are not sure about country boundary, you can follow google maps. :)

[chaomao]

@sgiehl do you think if I revert commit 4e47c8 and create pr, then pr will be accept? If you say yes, I will create one immediately.

[sgiehl]

@chaomao If it would be that easy I would have maybe done that already. Simply reverting the commit won't work and wouldn't be enough. Already tracked visits wouldn't change automatically. So guess there would be some adjustments in APIs needed to count them correctly or combine to the results with those from China.

[jijiechen]

@sgiehl Good point. Then let's do it step by step.

1. Include Tibet and Taiwan in China on the map, which is a common sense. Tibet was never a country, it's a state of China; Taiwan is also a province of China, this is recognized by plenty of international laws.
2. Treat the visit and event data from these two provinces as part of China data.

I have the same concern with @chaomao how possible such PR could be accepted if we create them?

[fengkaijia]

@sgiehl @jijiechen @chaomao With @mattab's irreversible bias on this issue and a total lack of knowledge of OSS and world history, I don't think a simple revert pr will pass (for example, #6749).

As you said in #9719 the map generator isn't working anymore, plus @mattab's misdeeds in ecb3d2e, fd0632c, eb4699e etc., I won't waste hours on this bug plus the map generator unless @mattab give his solo promise that he will accept a pr that fix all these problems. If not, then I don't think we need talking to the wall anymore.

The free software movement was founded on the mutual respect b/w the contributor and the user. That respect includes honoring the existing facts. Tibet is a part of China. That's a fact recognized by every nation in the world, every map publisher in the world from the United Nations to Google Analytics. If an OSS contributor is arrogantly enough to ignore the facts and believe that he can influence the users with his prejudice, then he's a fool and he is harming the free software movement. Did Linus Torvalds make Linux incompatible with PC that has a Nvidia-card? He didn't because he respects the user, in return, the user respects him. And that's how the free software movement benefits the social progress and humanity.

And to @mattab:

Please read the reference in this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Tibet_controversy before copying your comment from #6749.

[hejiaji]

@mattab I really think you should learn more of histories before you post any comments

[jiaopianjun]

666666666666666666666666666

[jiaopianjun]

I really think you should learn more of histories before you post any comments

[zqinmiao]

Tibet is part of China!

[myloft]

Tibet is part of China!

[YuanYe24]

Tibet is part of China!

[xgz123]

诸位，我们不用他抵制他不行吗，自己开发一个比他好的不行吗？它能accept这个提交已经说明问题了。
let's boycott 'piwik'.

[justjavac]

Tibet is part of China!

[phodal]

Tibet is part of China!

[xiasun]

I wonder when it comes to different points of view, based on which knowledge are you going to decide whether accept it or not?
Seriously this is important for an open source software developer.

[phodal]

@sgiehl, do you also mean the Germany should become GDR + FRG?

Your history was before 1959 years, but in the 1959, there was two Germanys?

Would you like in other version, you have two Germany??

[mirsking]

You gueys really want to lose all Chinese users? Stupid choice! Really stupid!

[jeenlee]

知乎观光团前来支援

[Findus23]

While I don’t want to comment on the topic, I really think that posting the same sentence again and again and splitting the discussion over multiple github issues doesn’t progress the discussion.

[moshoujingli]

知乎观光团前来志愿。
https://github.com/contact/report-abuse
各位搜集下法理证据，直接投诉不知道有用没有。
感觉这玩意不跟台湾一样好找。没有啥很打脸的证据啊。

[huruji]

Tibet is part of China!

[qiuai]

知乎&V2EX观光团前来支援~

[wuchuanming]

Tibet is part of China!

[huruji]

知乎观光团前来支援，You gueys really want to lose all Chinese users? Stupid choice! Really stupid!

[resouer]

@sgiehl Here is the PR to fix this: https://github.com/piwik/piwik/pull/6749
But it is closed immediately: https://github.com/piwik/piwik/issues/6994#issuecomment-69875712

[moshoujingli]

说起来感觉要不要跟外交部投诉一下http://piwik.org
，看看外交手段有啥用处没有

[sgiehl]

While till yesterday I tried to have a useful discussion on how this issue could be solved, it seems most people simply want to troll here now.
So finally this discussion is at some point where I will switch off. I'm doing this project for fun and thus will concentrate on issues being fun for me.
Congrats to all those childish spammers and trolls - I'm out.
Let me know as soon as everyone is ready to have a real discussion on how to solve this issue rather than expressing their political sense (as this is nothing I wanted to discuss) - Maybe I'll consider having a look then again.

[TesterCC]

@sgiehl @mattab We still hope you can change the real-map display issue. Tibet and Taiwan is a part of China whatever you think.

It just a simple modify, we didn't know why you don't change it and always give us all kind of ridiculous explanation since 2014.

If you don't change it, please tell all Chinese programmer directly (maybe you can write it in README), instead of just said "We have a useful discussion on how this issue could be solved" (After all, the earliest related issue reported in 2014)

Please have a basic political baseline though the Internet is free!!!

P.S.
I agree with @xgz123 , if piwik didn't change the real-map display issue, why don't boycott piwik.
Owner has right don't change the map display, users have right don't use it !!!
I think any real Chinese won't use the project which think Tibet and Taiwan didn't a part of China.

What the most important: Tibet and Taiwan is a part of China.

[phodal]

@TesterCC had you already see PR in https://github.com/piwik/piwik/pull/11930

Piwik 的开发者们已经做出改变了，见 https://github.com/piwik/piwik/pull/11930

[TesterCC]

@phodal I see the #11930, but piwik demo website still have display the issue. Hope it will be update in the future.

[phodal]

@TesterCC it would be, let's keep watching. Because the PR wasn't be merged.

[mattab]

Putting Tibet map was a small act of raising awareness about the military invasion of Tibet by China in 1950, and the subsequent destruction of Tibetan culture and freedom of thought by China. China occupation has resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Tibetans and the imprisonment and torture of thousands more. Plus the destruction of shrines, monasteries...

For most Chinese people, this is actually a good thing as according to them Tibet needed modernization, alphabetisation, etc. and that part was true. But it is really bad how China invaded Tibet and didn't leave these people to sort out their modernization needs on their own, rather than force it upon them. China could have helped Tibet to become a great nation with funding and kindness and respect rather than invade and kill them. And we know that Tibet is a huge natural resource for China (fresh water, mineral). As always, it's not so much about the "great china nation" as it really is about the natural resources.

For reference, similar invasions happened recently in western countries such as the USA when they destroyed the native American culture, or in Australia when they destroyed the aboriginal culture. It could and should have been done differently in an ideal world. But we don't live in this ideal world yet and China did indeed successfully invade Tibet with their army, and killed 1+ million people there.

I think that Chinese people are blinded by the extremely potent propaganda by their leaders, school system, etc. It's interesting how easy it is to influence human beings in believing what you want them to believe, if you control the school system and media. Obviously in our western society we are also blinded by propaganda about consumerism, capitalism, nationalism, and all the rest. It's not just Chinese who are blinded by propaganda.

I like the idea of having put the huge nation of Tibet on the map of Piwik Analytics for the last 4 years. But now that some other team members are pushing for restoring the "standard world map", it is hard for me alone to resist this push by my other colleagues.

[phodal]

@mattab I don't agree with you, because a few hundred years ago, the Tibet is a part of China. It means it's not a invade, it's a recapture. But since the 1900s, a lot of country invade China, they separated the Mongolia, the separated a lot of land from China, and now they want to separate again. We can't bear it, again, and again.

@mattab just another simple question, when we are talking about liber. Why Sikkim is a part of India in Piwik?

[mattab]

It means it's not a invade, it's a recapture.

Yes, China re-captured with military invasion. Same thing. China killed 1+ million Tibetans since 1950, to ensure the re-capture was not reversed.

Why Sikkim is a part of India in Piwik?

Because a referendum in 1975 led to Sikkim joining India as its 22nd state. Maybe you haven't heard of democracy and referendum as part of your schooling education, but it is an interesting concept where the people (here, Sikkim) chose to be part of India back then.

[xgz123]

Yes, China re-captured with military invasion. Same thing.

@phodal 我不觉得你能说服他。😂

[jijiechen]

@mattab I'm a little curious how did you know "China killed 1+ million Tibetans", what made you believe so?
These are just your imaginations.

[fengkaijia]

Let me rephrase @mattab's comment from the Central Tibetan Administration point of view:

But it is really bad how China invaded Tibet and didn't leave these people to sort out their modernization needs on their own, rather than force it upon them.

We want our slaves back. The communists took away slavery from us.

China could have helped Tibet to become a great nation with funding and kindness and respect rather than invade and kill them.

Yes, the communists should at first support our system. And make sure we can keep slavery. We attacked them because they cannot promise that.

As always, it's not so much about the "great china nation" as it really is about the natural resources.

Have you ever read Henry Kissinger's books? You better not read it. It totally makes non-sense. Our theory is better. People, people, people, always remember that China will invade your country when they ran out of resource. Yes, China is dark and dangerous, and please follow Dalai Lama. And make sure you donate to us.

---

The funny thing is that @mattab is citing every bit of information from CTA-controlled or CTA-favored sites without validation. Of source, the best way to validate these claims is go to Tibet and see it by your self, but he didn't. He claims the Chinese are the people blinded by "extremely potent propaganda", in fact, he is. His irreversible bias here let him choose to ignore all contribution the central government made in the past decades. He is blinded to the Qinghai-Tibet Railway or Qinghai-Tibet Highway, and to the fact that Tibet's GDP has increased 27 times from 1993 to 2015 (cite National Data) [Disclaimer: I live in Hong Kong, I don't read Global Times, and I don't need Global Times to tell me about these]. The goal of Western education is to develop a useful citizen for democracy. One who can easily be blind by propaganda does not qualified to that standard.

I thanks "some other team members" and especially, @sgiehl for correcting a four-year long non-sense bug. They made Piwik truely a free software.

And at last, @mattab looks like you knows nothing about the history of China. Go read Henry Kissinger's book.

[fengkaijia]

@desmear It's funny that you created your account 30 mins ago and labeled yourself to live in Xi'an. Plus, there's no need to access GitHub via VPN.

[jijiechen]

@desmear No, we do not need VPNs to access GitHub, we get here directly by a direct link.

GFW is another topic which we'd like to discuss with you to prove your understanding is not proper if you have a whole day. Everyone loves the freedom of Internet, but nobody may use it to hurt the freedom of Internet and human being. Think about what happened on Facebook and Twitter before the 2008 Olympic games, during passing of the Olympic torch. This is the real reason why some websites are blocked from China.

That's why we think you get so much bad stereotypes on Chinese people and China government.

[fengkaijia]

@desmear, and for the GFW issue, read https://www.quora.com/Why-is-Facebook-banned-in-China-2/answer/Robin-Daverman?srid=3XPCO.

[jijiechen]

@desmear Shame on you. How could you spread such rumours? What you said is not true. Nobody get troubles on accessing GitHub. Only certain websites are blocked because of political issues on them. People in Tibet have full access to the Internet as other Chinese people do.

[xgz123]

这个 @desmear 不知道是个啥东西，散播谣言，懂法的朋友可以动手了

[JokerQyou]

Hmm. I thought this issue was to discuss about adding Tibet back to China in the map plugin? I suggest we focus on that instead of talking about GFW. That newly created account is just trolling.

[jijiechen]

@desmear What a joke! Do people have labels attached on their faces claiming where do they come from? I didn't go there in-person, but lots of my friends who went to Tibet for tourism and education, they published plenty pictures and contents online during their time.
It's a waste of my time talking to you.

[fengkaijia]

@desmear If there's no Internet in Tibet as you say, then can you explain why someone from Lhasa is visiting my blog hosted in Hong Kong.

By the way, that's a screenshot from Google Analytics.

[xgz123]

@desmear 直接用中文行么？又要逼我写英语作文。
I think you might have break the law of your country. Is that a threat ?
What I didn't say is -- I(We) will find you in the flesh -- this is a real threat.
Use new account and tor -- you must be so scared. Not by the goverment, by your self.
I am wasting my time ...
What you say is not true.

[mattab]

@xgz123 Here again you show us who you really are, a strong Chinese patriot threatening your brothers with violence.

@desmear make sure to report this to Github as threatening of violence is not acceptable in a modern society or on Github and is against the terms and conditions

[joewulf]

@mattab You're a nice ASSHOLE

[joewulf]

@mattab 纯粹就是一个脑残，看来是被轮子洗脑了，典型的无知白皮猪，读了点野史就当真理，在一个技术的地方宣扬自己的政治理念还沾沾自喜。
人在做天在看。
还有那个@desmear，简直就是轮子，和垃圾@mattab绝对是天设地造的一双。

[joewulf]

大家也不要指望 @mattab 这种废物会回滚任何东西，他的目的就是来恶心中国人的，跟他理论就像和狗讲理一样，你还会被他咬。

[fengkaijia]

@desmear You are making claims without citing sources. How on Earth do I know how to find a "report by sina weibo I've read months ago"? If that's your point of persuasive, then I have many Tibetian classmates, you can find them on WeChat.

[YouYue123]

@desmear

As an open-source project contributed by a large community, they should keep their political opinion as neutral as possible.

Now UN world map indicates that both of Tibet and Taiwan are part of China clearly. From a neutral point of view, they should respect the result from the most trustworthy organization in the world

[moshoujingli]

Chinese gov blocked most site's overseas including Github, may be Github is unbanned temporarily in some areas, but who knows, they will put it back in the blacklist any time as they wish.

LOL，How can a adult say such ...
Well, of course, @mattab @desmear you can hold you opinion, and I, maybe some of us, come to here(not across VPN, thanks for the gov) is not to caring about what you are thinking, but to correct this map, in any legal way. If there is a convenient way, that's great. But if not, as I said in the past comment, marking Taiwan not as a part of the PRC on a public service is against the " UN General Assembly Resolution 2758"(I hope you guys know it.) and other relevant files, I think InnoCraft Ltd. is in the New Zealand ,a menber of UN , so it will follow these policies and ,as a commercial entity, it won't be glad to see this thread become a Diplomatic accident. I'm not sure If you can acknowledged that the moment the event happening here become bother then bring this to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or some other UN official department. And as you said ToS of Github, I think Github is alse a commercial entity, too many political trouble will let them find out the source.
我个人觉得大家是否考虑给外交部和新西兰大使馆写信投诉piwik的老家，我粘贴出来的那家公司？外交渠道直接怼赞助商和运营者。

[moshoujingli]

@desmear
Tibetian, well, they have a nice alias.You call us Chinese, but why not call me Sandonian ? Because I'm not as famous as the killer Da Lai? LoL.

While I come to Youtube and Facebook to see how CNN fool the America, you sham on us by your imagination, Interesting.
And your logical thinking ability seems weak, Can anyone say: While I leaved in Tokyo, I never see a people from Iceland on the internet, because Chinese Gov cant ban me there, so that must be Iceland is blocked from internet by their gov or Japanese banned me from Iceland.

If you so confident with your opinion, just show me the statistic data based on official files or notifications which is acknowledged and will not be challenged by the Permanent members of the United Nations Security Council. I have no interest to hear about the imagination with no evidence. As referred above, these often seems nonsense.

[fengkaijia]

@desmear2 Did you seriously read the text? Simply it's gray doesn't mean no one is using it.

READ the text bro: >0.0%. It means few people (0.0% to 0.5% of the total Weibo user) are using Weibo in Tibet. Not no one is using it.

There are 3.1 million people live in Tibet, and there are 1.379 billion in total, that means population in Tibet only accounts ~0.25% of the total population in China. The second level in this chart is 0.5%, therefore there's no way the Tibet part can be green unless every Tibetian Weibo user has more than 2 accounts.

The same goes to Qinghai province that only has 5.2 million in population (~0.4%), which is also gray.

So where is your critical thinking bro.... 不要老喜欢弄个大新闻然后就把中央批判一番，报道有偏差你要负责的，naive！

[fengkaijia]

@desmear2 BTW, your account was suspended because of registering using Tor/not providing your real information. That violates the Account Requirements in TOS.

READ the TOS and before you think it was reported by users.

[Chriser001]

@desmear2 Can not understand the contents of the random analysis, that their knowledgeable,【 】是个好东西。But , you did not.

[zaizai0935]

都什么时代了，支持藏独和台独的都是傻逼