Mastodon: Name rebranding? "toot" == fart

[ghost]

Sorry if it's a duplicate, really hard to search for this generic keyword "toot" which would have my context.

If you go on youtube and search for _"mastodon social"_, some top videos address mostly the branding issues saying that "Mastodon" is hard to pronounce and that "toot" (urban dictionary link) means fart.

We all would like more people to use this service but can we really envision a public figure (after signing up on mastodon) saying smth like: "Please toot me tomorrow" or "I'll toot you when ready"? I doubt that, the best case scenario: they'd say that while giggling.

I could see three possible solutions here:

1. outsource a marketing/re-branding specialist for suggestions;
2. just change "mastodon" & "toot" to something else;
3. or at least change "toot" to something else.

What do you guys think about it? How would you see this issue being solved (if you see it as an issue)?

Thanks.

[Cassolotl]

I mean, I kind of agree with you to an extent. Toot = fart, things starting with masto often = NSFW connotations. There is much room for mockery. But Twitter = twit, I've seen people call it Twatter. I would probably like a rebrand, but if there isn't one I think we'll do fine!

(I feel like this is a duplicate of an issue that was closed but I can't find it.)

[lofidevops]

I associate this project with fun, trumpeting pachyderms and healthy communities. So I'd argue against "rebranding" this positive image:

1. How can we confirm that the "fart" and "masturbate" problems have significant impact, and are not soon-to-be-forgotten responses from a vocal, negging and/or puerile minority? (Similar to the non-problems with "tweet" and "twit".)

2. As an alternative to rebranding, mature users who still have a serious problem with the terminology could make "posts" from an account on a "boring.social" instance. This might be appropriate, for example, on a corporate or activist instance where "fun" terminology dilutes the tone.

[nightpool]

people have been sending hot takes about our "doomed" branding ever since I've been on mastodon. but so far very few actual users have complained about it, only people looking to dismiss it without engaging with it.

and on the other hand, mastodon now enjoys name recognition with millions of users and it would be a huge effort to change that, not to mention wasting a lot of existing good will. and all of that ignore the fact that decentralization means that no one even has to care about the mastodon brand if they don't want to—your local instance brand and the fediverse/ActivityPub network brand are to some extent more important to the casual user.

[nightpool]

if you dislike using the word "toot", feel free to call them posts or statuses (I often do). it's just a nickname—not a core part of the branding.

[bonsaiheldin]

To bring in another opinion: I've never even heard of the wort "toot" in context with farting, to be honest. Maybe it's some kind of slang. I think of playing a horn or a trumpet when i see the word. To toot a trumpet.

I wouldn't care much about that masturbation thing either. It's masturbation, not mastorbation. I think if "masto" really makes someone think of masturbating, then the "problem" does not lie in the word Mastodon but somewhere else. Also, let's not forget that Mastodons are extinct animals, a type of mammoth. I like that name and i like the mascot, very much. It's cute.

Like @Cassolotl mentioned with "twitter = twit", i suggest to not let people that use words differently, harm your ideas. Also, like @kwill said, it's hard anyway to confirm if it really has an impact. To me it sounds just like there are people making fun of words. Until now i've never heard about the words being a problem. So, i guess... Let's not make it one.

[Cassolotl]

With words like Mastodon/masturbate and toot/fart, there's a line between probably fine and actually a bad idea, right? People naming things online have to ask around to make sure the names they choose don't sound offensive in other languages and whatnot, but also no two people have that line between fine/bad idea in exactly the same place. So there will always be some people who think it's bad and some people who don't see the problem at all, and no one is objectively right.

The thing with Mastodon is that unlike Google (silly sounding word) and Twitter (can be shortened to twit/twat), Mastodon is on the border of a taboo sexual activity and a toilet thing. Both of those are, shall we say, taboo in many places at least in the Western English-speaking world as far as I know? So like, anyone who's super mature or who speaks English as a second language probably doesn't have that visceral emotional connection, but anyone whose first language is English and who's been taught not to talk about masturbation from a young age or who was taught that farts are rude is probably always going to have those associations in the back of their mind.

And that's why it keeps coming up. It's shame associated with those words, on some level, probably an unconscious level for a lot of people. I'm not special-interested enough in this topic to know whether it can make or break a brand or project, but that's what's going on.

Edit: Here's someone whose local accent makes people wonder if Mastodon is a sex thing.

[nightpool]

I speak English as a first language and honestly never noticed the
masturbation thing until it was pointed out in this thread.

don't think I've ever heard anyone mention it before either, even though
there was that whole mashable article about how mastodon was a bad name,
they didn't seem to notice the connection

On Tue, May 29, 2018, 2:52 PM Cassolotl [e-mail] wrote:

With words like Mastodon/masturbate and toot/fart, there's a line between
probably fine and actually a bad idea, right? People naming things online
have to ask around to make sure the names they choose don't sound offensive
in other languages and whatnot, but also no two people have that line
between fine/bad idea in exactly the same place.

The thing with Mastodon is that unlike Google (silly sounding word) and
Twitter (can be shortened to twit/twat), Mastodon is on the border of a
taboo sexual activity and a toilet thing. Both of those are, shall we say,
taboo in many places at least in the Western English-speaking world as far
as I know? So like, anyone who's super mature or who speaks English as a
second language probably doesn't have that visceral emotional connection,
but anyone whose first language is English and who's been taught not to
talk about masturbation from a young age or who was taught that farts are
rude are probably always going to have those associations in the back of
their mind.

And that's why it keeps coming up. It's shame associated with those words, on
some level, probably an unconscious level for a lot of people. I'm not
special-interested enough in this topic to know whether it can make or
break a brand or project, but that's what's going on.

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[nightpool]

if anything, my immediate association would be with "masticate", for chewing

[LogicalDash]

that's weird, I don't think most people even know that word

[Cassolotl]

Yeah, I'm thinking that on the odd occasion that people do notice the connection it'd be taboo to mention it. But a lot of people will dislike the word and not really know why. Like "moist". :P

[Cassolotl]

if anything, my immediate association would be with "masticate", for chewing

that's weird, I don't think most people even know that word

When I was in school, pranksters would play tricks on people who didn't know that word. They would say "oh, are you masticating?" and watch the person go red.

[Gargron]

Mastodon is on the border of a taboo sexual activity and a toilet thing

What the...

[Cassolotl]

It's cool, no one cares that the Nintendo Wii has named itself "urine"!