This is a placeholder to consolidate Sample Track related issues and requests. If a new Sample Track bug is reported on the tracker, close it out and mark it as a duplicate of this bug, (#1471)
Basic Functionality:
- [x] Pan Sample Track #1080 #1360 (Closed via #1481)
- [x] Play Sample Track mid-song #131 #2596 (Closed via #3133)
- [x] FX Mixer Support #133 #1360 #2619 (Closed via #3866)
- [x] FadeButton LED/Track Indicator #1360
- [ ] FX Mixer Preset Support #1816
- [ ] Drag and drop sample support
- [x] Drag samples to new TCO segments #3228 (Closed via #5043)
- [x] Drag and drop samples between tracks #881
- [x] Easier access to built-in samples, probably through drag/drop #4221
- [ ] Drag samples in from other applications
- [ ] Fix SampleTrack size in BBEditor #4224
Enhanced Functionality:
- [ ] Better performance through mapped sample files #4015
- [ ] Sample Track beat-mapping support #756
- [ ] Static tempo for Sample Track #1161
- [x] Resize Sample Track from both sides #756, #701 (Closed via #3487)
- [ ] Sample cutting forum/#3330 (Work in progress: #4998)
- [ ] More AFP-plugin-like features #858
- [ ] Better wave-editing capabilities #495
- [ ] Sample Track recording
#908#1360#3943 (started in #3947, continued by ~#4531~ #4994)
- [ ] Audio-input selection #1360 [Milestone: 1.3]
- [ ] Sample distinction via naming
- [ ] Allow visualizing both stereo channels #4598
Professional-Grade Enhancments
- [ ] Pitch and pitch range support #1471
- [ ] BPM Mapping (mentioned below in this thread)
- [x] Colorization support #1360 (Closed via #5573)
Bugs:
- [x] Sample not in sync with waveform https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/issues/1471#issuecomment-118354809 (Closed via #3133)
- [x] Sample gets cut off prematurely #2778, https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/issues/1471#issuecomment-118354809 (Fixed in #4991 or #5226)
Related:
- (none reported yet)
tresf
All 98 comments
Are new issues/requests to be entered in this topic, or entered in their own topic and then mentioned here?
Moth-Tolias
on 20 Dec 2014
Are new issues/requests to be entered in this topic, or entered in their own topic and then mentioned here?
If it is more than a few words to explain, feel free to open a separate one and crosslink. We can do the rest.
If it's something obvious like "wave graphic drawn incorrectly", then we'll just add a bullet point and move on. Does that sound OK?
Lastly, if you actually have a feature you are working on, please feel free to chime in and we can use a dedicated bug report or the pull request to track progress on that.
-Tres
tresf
on 20 Dec 2014
FYI - Pan Sample Track #1080 closed via #1481
tresf
on 22 Dec 2014
Would it be possible to do drag and drop of samples between tracks?
liftarn
on 9 Jan 2015
I just don't understand why we have track samples if an AudioFileProcessor is much more versatile and integrates better with the LMMS environment.
Is there any advantage in using a Sample track compared to AudioFileProcessor?
badosu
on 9 Jan 2015
Is there any advantage in using a Sample track compared to AudioFileProcessor?
Most people are already using AFP. I think the main advantage is multiple samples per track, which AFP doesn't really allow.
-Tres
tresf
on 9 Jan 2015
It's difficult, because today the only kind of sample treatment I am aware of that can be done natively by lmms is using AFP, things like slicing etc...
But these features are somewhat orthogonal with how AFP is designed today.
Maybe Sample Tracks will be useful in the future if we are able to add these features?
badosu
on 9 Jan 2015
It's difficult, because today the only kind of sample treatment I am aware of that can be done natively by lmms is using AFP, things like slicing etc...
Right...
Maybe Sample Tracks will be useful in the future if we are able to add these features?
I tend to agree with your original statement... Reuse AFP at all costs. (or subclass it). But that's a very high-level hypothetical wish. I can't speak to the complexity of the implementation.
One thing is that AFP has some features which would almost certainly have to be disabled for SampleTrack, such as loop points, and probably most of the envelope features.
tresf
on 9 Jan 2015
Yeah, sorry for digressing a little, I just wanted to understand what is the role of Sample Track on LMMS today. This is relevant to plan how to enhance it.
badosu
on 9 Jan 2015
Yeah, sorry for digressing a little, I just wanted to understand what is the role of Sample Track on LMMS today. This is relevant to plan how to enhance it.
Absolutely. I don't see any digressing here. Part of solving a problem is understanding it, and I'm a huge proponent of that! :+1:
When it comes to solving this problem, I think we'll be faced with two approaches (improve SampleTrack versus extend AFP). Since basic wave editing is critical to sample track implementations in all DAWs, I would say AFP is the place to be. :)
tresf
on 9 Jan 2015
Of course it is, they are fundamental different, you don't use a Sampletrack for a drum kick, and you don't use AFP for a one minute long audio file.
Speak for yourself please. :wink:
tresf
on 9 Jan 2015
I often use sample tracks for beats I have made earlier. It is a bit tedious to copy one beat across an entire track. I tried to use AudioFileProcessor for it, both in piano roll and the beat editor, but I couldn't get them to line up correctly.
liftarn
on 9 Jan 2015
Also Sample Tracks can be used to consolidate(resample) your instruments. You take and Render your CPU-heavy instrument, and import it back as a sample track, thus reducing CPU usage. It'd be wierd to use AFP for that.
Umcaruje
on 9 Jan 2015
You take and Render your CPU-heavy instrument, and import it back as a sample track, thus reducing CPU usage. It's be wierd to use AFP for that.
Well, we're talking functionally. AFP can do exactly as you are describing, it just requires the use of a Piano Roll and is limited to a single sample per track. Yes, it is weird, but what you are describing is how I've chosen to use long samples anyway. Without the standard FX assignment, you can't EQ or add compression to lengthy recordings in a Sample Track. SampleTrack is mostly useless for serious compositions.
I think what you are referring to is the Song Editor's UI portion of AFP. Without question that is "weird" to use, but many of us are already doing it today since there is no equivalent functionality in the software. :)
tresf
on 9 Jan 2015
I think what you are referring to is the Song Editor's UI portion of AFP. Without question that is "weird" to use, but many of us are already doing it today since there is no equivalent functionality in the software. :)
Because of these limits I use AFP too, but @badosu asked about the point of Sample Tracks, so I said what they can be used for :) I hope they will get more features soon and become worthy using, but I agree that in their current state they are mostly useless.
Umcaruje
on 9 Jan 2015
but @badosu asked about the point of Sample Tracks
Not trying to nitpick here, but he asked in comparison to AFP. You're example works fine with AFP, minus the weirdness. :turtle:
-Tres
tresf
on 9 Jan 2015
It would be easier to understand the difference if you didn't explain how you potentially could use AFP for the same as a Sampletrack with more effort, Tres :)
6 now, have a dozen later, I'm not sure what you are driving at. A feature is a feature. Mind that I also examined the sample track code and tried to fix a few bugs. I'm not firing off a wish list here, this is deductive problem solving and the question "WHY NOT USE AFP INSTEAD" is completely valid. No one is saying "I want AFP functionality in the GUI where Sample Track was, despite it sucking for a Sample Track", so don't think we're trying to candy coat something that doesn't work as the solution for something is broken.
Instead the discussion was a fundamental one about why a completely second plugin is necessary if one can do both functions. Graphically and functionally, we all want a real sample track. No one is trying to cloud that, I just think you're reading a bit into our conversations and trying to prevent a derailment that won't happen. :smiley:
i.e. if AFP is used, it would likely be a dual-functioning plugin. This is how most DAWs do it anyway.
tresf
on 10 Jan 2015
Right... He's trying to tackle it from a coding perspective. Something like shortening the sample length for example has already been handled in AFP. So has the chaining of FX effects, pitch support, FX channel assignment, etc. When fixing SampleTrack one must stop and ask "how much effort is worth it when we have most of this code already written".
I would like to see AFP operate in dual mode for this, but that's a tall request to make when I have no intentions of coding it... :smirk:
tresf
on 10 Jan 2015
This should be turned into a task list so its easier to mark fixed issues.
Umcaruje
on 2 Mar 2015
What about change the name of the track?
Do you mean the individual segments?
tresf
on 3 Mar 2015
The default name of the track form sample track to audio track like in #1360.
Reaper10
on 3 Mar 2015
That's just cosmetic. We could change that any time, but at this point I don't think it adds much value. We have some conversations in other threads about different names for existing components (Song Editor vs. Sequencer, BBEditor vs. Step Editor, etc). Better names is on our radar, but I'm intentionally leaving it off of this bug report. :+1:
tresf
on 3 Mar 2015
I saw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPkd-xUTDrU and the function to loop a sample would be very nice to have for pre-recorded drums. It would probably not be enough to just start playing it again after the first iteration is done since they will drift over time so some kind of tempo matching would be needed.
liftarn
on 5 Mar 2015
This is already easily doable in LMMS. You load the sample into an Audio
File Processor that is in a Beat/Bass line pattern. You can use the A.F.P.
To trim start and stop down to the sample, and then use pitch control for
minute playback/pitch adjustments.
Then just drag that B/B track out on the song editor wherever you need it
looped.
On Thu, Mar 5, 2015, 1:51 PM liftarn [email protected] wrote:
I saw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPkd-xUTDrU and the function to
loop a sample would be very nice to have for pre-recorded drums. It would
probably not be enough to just start playing it again after the first
iteration is done since they will drift over time so some kind of tempo
matching would be needed.—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/issues/1471#issuecomment-77438140.
dednikko
on 5 Mar 2015
You should add a open in AFP in song editor or open in AFP in B&B editor right click options to the Sample Track witch will auto load it into a new AFP in the song editor or open it into a new AFP in B&B editor.
Reaper10
on 7 Mar 2015
Using AFP to loop a beat in the Beat/Bass editor would be very nice. Too bad it is near impossible to get a smooth loop. Either it is too long and you get double beats where it overlaps or it's too short so you get a silence at loop points.
liftarn
on 8 Mar 2015
There are some amazing Free/Open Source plugins for sample handling/looping:
- http://openavproductions.com/luppp/
- http://drumkv1.sourceforge.net/drumkv1-index.html
- http://samplv1.sourceforge.net/samplv1-index.html
- https://objectivewave.wordpress.com/beatslash-lv2/
This requires lv2 support though, which is something I am studying to implement and embed on LMMS.
badosu
on 10 Mar 2015
@badosu -those are great links. Should we add them to wiki's _useful-resources_,
eg, do they work as 'stand-alone' ?
musikBear
on 10 Mar 2015
Should we add them to wiki's useful-resources
No until LMMS has lv2 support.
eg, do they work as 'stand-alone'
Some of them do, some not. If you use Jack you can plug Carla and make them work with lmms, see: http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/Applications:Carla
Never done this though, heard of some people on #lmms that use this.
badosu
on 10 Mar 2015
linuxonly
Sti2nd
on 10 Mar 2015
@Sti2nd Not really, LV2 is an OS agnostic plugin interface, in contrary of VST.
Plugin authors need to care about which OS their users are using though, but LV2 does not get in the way for this.
badosu
on 10 Mar 2015
Wow, cool! I was speaking of Carla, cause that is Linux only, right?
Sti2nd
on 10 Mar 2015
Wow, cool! I was speaking of Carla, cause that is Linux only, right?
Well... We haven't tried porting it to Windows or Mac yet. The LV2 on Windows conversation is no different than the LADSPA on Windows conversation... or perhaps the ZynAddSubFX on Windows conversation... If we compile and bundle them as part of our software (with all dependencies included), then they'll most likely work. Some OS-specific hacks may be required, but there's nothing limiting us except effort. :+1:
-Tres
tresf
on 10 Mar 2015
@Sti2nd As far as I know Carla should work on OSX, Windows and Linux. If it integrates well with LMMS is another story though.
badosu
on 10 Mar 2015
If it integrates well with LMMS is another story though
It is already integrated? Oh, well, what do I know :) You tagged the wrong person btw :warning:
Sti2nd
on 10 Mar 2015
@Sti2nd sorry about the tagging.
About the integration: it allegedly has for Linux, but I never actually were able (or even tried) to use it. Some days ago someone on #lmms was trying to use Carla on windows to integrate with lmms but I don't know if the person was sucessful.
badosu
on 10 Mar 2015
That isn't the same, though? Connecting the Windows version of Carla to the Windows version of LMMS will not be an integrated plugin? I would believe one would compile LMMS on Linux for Windows as usual :thought_balloon:
Sti2nd
on 10 Mar 2015
Yep, not the same thing as we have somewhat a tighter integration level. There should not exist any reason for it to not be ported to Windows easily though.
Ideally we should'nt have this integration layer IMO and stick to better JACK integration as Carla uses it.
badosu
on 10 Mar 2015
@Sti2nd @badosu Carla has to be installed natively on your linux box ( it works very stable here ), Carla-rack is only a bridge from LMMS to Carla. I think FalkTX plans to someday in the future port to windows tho.
- update I see there is a windows version, I don't know how functional it is tho? *
mikobuntu
on 10 Mar 2015
Carla convo: https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/pull/1155#issuecomment-55299399
tresf
on 11 Mar 2015
@tresf Thanks for the reference!
badosu
on 11 Mar 2015
You should add a open in AFP in song editor or open in AFP in B&B editor right click options to the Sample Track witch will auto load it into a new AFP in the song editor or open it into a new AFP in B&B editor.
Reaper10
on 17 Mar 2015
One thing thats not been mentioned at all, is _naming_
For almost the first time i looked at Sample Track, not just for test reason, but actual usage :p. I had 7 smallish pieces of wave, and i was rather annoyed as i found out, that there is no way to 'mark' these fragments, so they are easy to recognize, and re-use in other parts of the piece.
Naming a.o color-change options would be a huge help in that situation.
One thing i realized as i was working with Sample Track, was the very significant difference from AFP. Sample Track has the benefit of being able to use _many_ different wave-samples with one and the same FX-train. To accomplish _that_ with AFP, all FX's would have to be duplicated on _each_ of the AFP's -A huge overhead! ('solution' -to route all AFP to same FX-channel, and make all FX _there_, but that also has constraints)
This significans, is something that should be remembered, when Sample Track is refurbished !
Naming/ color coding, is however missing now.
One may like to look back on #816, even though that proposal was thrown in the bin, but was it useless?
musikBear
on 12 Apr 2015
@musikBear, added Sample distinction via naming / color coding.
tresf
on 12 Apr 2015
LMMS could use Punch Recording
Punch Recording pro tools
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U-CGDNXs3E
Reaper10
on 13 Apr 2015
LMMS could use Punch Recording
Punch Recording pro tools
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U-CGDNXs3E
How about we set our sites on simply recording for now (something we have no support for currently). We aren't on the same level as pro-tools so please practice discretion when posting these things. Your request is the equivalent of asking for a faster elevator in a one story building.
tresf
on 13 Apr 2015
ok sorry that for latter it would be nice to have someday tho
Reaper10
on 13 Apr 2015
The sample track should be able to open and use mp3 files in it.
Reaper10
on 16 Apr 2015
@Reaper10 MP3 support violates the GPL license. Start offering fixes and not wish lists please.
tresf
on 20 Apr 2015
@tresf have the LMMS developers already considered using LAME for mp3 decoding? (despite the name, it can decode as well as encode). LAME is licensed under LGPL.
Wallacoloo
on 20 Apr 2015
@Wallacoloo, probably worth starting a new topic over. I know the US, Europe and Japan historically have had some issues with the library but from a pure licensing perspective, you appear to be correct, we should be able to use it.
I know the users would be largely in support of MP3 support, so this would be a very nice feature indeed.
tresf
on 20 Apr 2015
Perhaps a look at http://mp3licensing.com/royalty/
Frauenhofer-institute is not nice to do battles with..
How many weekly dl right now.. 5000.. ? -> $16250 .... pr WEEK !
-And that is with Frauenhofers lowest rates (software 2.5..5) for encoding
musikBear
on 20 Apr 2015
I feel that mp3 support is overdue, but we must be careful with this.
Does lmms need to be able to encode as well as decode? im unsure of the licence requirements to just read an mp3.
Users could still encode there creations in 3rd party software, but would be able to use mp3 as samples.
curlymorphic
on 20 Apr 2015
@musikBear if we did mp3, I believe it would be a reverse-engineered open source library, not the official Frauenhofer one.
tresf
on 20 Apr 2015
@curlymorphic we would have tremendous value for both cases. Decode for importing samples, vocals, etc. Encode for exporting (as an alternative to ogg).
tresf
on 20 Apr 2015
I can see very good use cases for both myself, but was wondering if it helped with legal issues.
I think we need to tread careful on this one. I know many projects do use reverse-engineered open source libraries, But we are larger than most of them, so more likely to be seen.
curlymorphic
on 20 Apr 2015
It's a moot point since patents required to implement MP3 expired in most countries by December 2012, 21 years after the publication of ISO CD 11172. An exception is the United States where patents filed for anything disclosed in ISO CD 11172 a year or more after its publication are questionable. If only the known MP3 patents filed by December 1992 are considered, then MP3 decoding may be patent-free in the US by September 2015 when U.S. Patent 5,812,672 expires which had a PCT filing in Oct 1992
liftarn
on 21 Apr 2015
Let's continue this mp3 discussion over on #2000 to avoid cluttering the original issue.
Wallacoloo
on 22 Apr 2015
The Sample Track needs a pitch knob and pitch range box. This way you can do a tape stop FX right form The Sample with out a plugin. You can all so just drop down the pich of the track with out a plugin to do it.
Reaper10
on 21 May 2015
^--- added.
tresf
on 21 May 2015
Could you add the amplify knob from the AFP to the Sample Track it'll act as what other DAWs call the clip gain fader?
Reaper10
on 9 Jun 2015
bug. Quite surprised this hasn't been reported before, actually.
-put a sufficiently long sample in the sample-track (Most notable if you put a whole song in)
-hit "play"
-notice that:
--a: sample-track waveform becomes out-of-sync with currently playing audio
--b: audio stops prematurely
Moth-Tolias
on 3 Jul 2015
@Moth-Tolias added to bugs section.
tresf
on 3 Jul 2015
The Sample Track should have drag & drop support of a audio file to add a sample track with the audio file in it. This way a user can drag & drop a audio file on a blank spot on the Song Editor to add a Sample Track with the audio file in it. This just to add another way to add a sample Track.
Reaper10
on 6 Jul 2015
Thoughts
That is not an icon at all, it is a large waveform. It won't scale to size. And yes, we've tried using waveform icons and haven't settled on anything yet.
tresf
on 20 Aug 2015
@Reaper10 the wave-spectrum inside the sample-track is in fact the actual spectrum of the _specific_ wavefile. _Not_ an icon, but a representation of the actual spectrum
musikBear
on 21 Aug 2015
Is anyone working on "playing samples mid-song"? I've seen in #131 it was being worked on, already partly done and then closed on may 2014 until now.
drummyfish
on 23 Aug 2015
Is anyone working on "playing samples mid-song"? I've seen in #131 it was being worked on, already partly done and then closed on may 2014 until now.
@diizy started it via https://github.com/diizy/lmms/tree/sampletrack (about a 18 months ago) but the timing of the playback was off each time we tested this build. He hasn't touched it since then, anyone is free to clone is code and continue working on it.
Coincidentally, the timing of the playback was off the exact offset of the preview image, although he claimed that these symptoms were two completely unrelated coincidences.
In regards to it being closed, it was consolidated, not closed. You're asking in the right place by posting your questions here. :+1:
tresf
on 23 Aug 2015
As brought up in #2154 the sample track needs a audio clip editor like the midi and automation editor/
Reaper10
on 11 Oct 2015
Could the purpose of _Sample-track_ have been 'misunderstood'? When was sample-track introduced, and by who? Tobydox is my guess, but in case someone knows better, please say:)
Sampletrack has been understood as the place to have long pieces of sound-files, like a vocal, but sampletrack can be used completely different. I wonder if _that_ perhaps was the actual intended usage.
Regard sampletrack as loopSample-track, eg Not for _long_ recordings, but for tiny loops, and it is a very interesting feature. and one that works 100% correctly!
It is hard to explain, but very easy to see: https://youtu.be/cCTaCs_8j2M
(i apologize the reverb, but thats a camStudio problem that has appeared in my recordings)
All in all, if you also see the value in using current sample-track, as i show in the video, then maby it could be left untouched, and the feature for long samples could be initiated from a blanc page, without any inherited restrictions from current sample-track
musikBear
on 27 Mar 2016
The purpose of sample tracks is holding samples, no matter now long or short, sample tracks need to accommodate to them.
Now, in your video, you change the BPM of your song, so your project gets adjusted to the sample track and the loop is on beat. That's not how sample tracks should work. One should be able to accommodate the sample to fit to your project and not vice-versa.
So, LMMS should actually try to guess the BPM of your sample, or dig it from the metadata, or allow you to set it yourself, then it should stretch that sample and make it match the BPM of your project, so if you change the tempo, the sample still stays on the beat. Sample tracks should be playable from any part of their length, no matter how short or long they are. Also, it should be possible to cut sample tracks, split and rearrange them.
Anyways, that's how ideally sample tracks should work, and I know there needs to be a lot of work done to make that happen. I just wanted to say that we can't say that an unfinished part of the program has a misunderstood purpose, just because it works in a very specific and limited usecase.
Umcaruje
on 27 Mar 2016
@Umcaruje
I just wanted to say that we can't say that an unfinished part of the program has a misunderstood purpose, just because it works in a very specific and limited usecase
But thats just it. It is not a very specific and limited usecase. You can take _any_ loop and use that as a fill in your own track, and any number of loops, provided that they have the same BPM. The current sampletrack is infact ACID-studio. The program that was purchased by SONY and were then made into SONYacid. Sony sells sample_packs_ that has high quality recordings in the same bpm setting, and users the lego-build predominately hiphop beats, with these blocks. AFAIK audacity can change the bpm in a sample, and those could be used in LMMS -I agree that it would be marvellous, if the program could do this 'stretching', but doing it 'handmade' is not that bad. Current sampletrack is a feature, that way. It is as good as the old AcidStudio from 199x.
..And btw, the way a sample behaves when the bpm is adjusted, is a strong indicator, that _this_ is actually its intended usage. Dont you think so?
Just want to show how perfect the fit is between two copies of _909beat01.ogg_ at the correct BMP
musikBear
on 27 Mar 2016
Rethinking Sample-track
I here suggest a new type of track for long samples. The idea will take care of
_Play Sample Track mid-song #(131 & 2596)_
As a wip name i have chosen accompaniment-track
I suggest to re-think the problem that exists with current sampletrack, eg the fact that a long recording cant be accessed from any position.
The suggestion is to threat a sound-file (wav, ogg) as a _fragmented-sample_.
To achieve this lmms would need :
- a method that can create fragmented-samples from sound-files
- these fragments could be uniform in length, but it would make sense to implement a dB-fragmenticing as well, because sound-file-fragments can be used in several ways (sb). The creation of fragments would either be done once, and the fragments would then need to be saved in folder as a collection of wave-files, or it could take place, at every project-loading. The benefit here would be that the orr. sound-file would be used.
- load these fragments in continuous fashion in the accompaniment-track.
I suspect that it will be necessary for the fragments to be sliced at 0dB, in order to avoid clicks
The result would be a collection of sound-files, that would play as one continuous wave-file, and almost play in any position of the playhead
In mockup it could be something like:
Here there are 9 fragments, and playback would be initiated at every red line, witch also is at 0dB
A possible startpoint could be with http://freecode.com/projects/freecycle
If that team would be interested in sharing, then that code may be the way ahead.
More: http://freecycle.redsteamrecords.com/
Source: http://download.savannah.gnu.org/releases/freecycle/freecycle-0.6.1.1alpha.tar.bz2
Further use of the sound-file-fragments.
The method to 'fragmentize' long sound-files into 'natural' fragments at 0dB points, could be used for a native lmms sampler.
Based on AFP, the plugin would distribute the fragments over the necessary number of keys, and add a real sampler functionality to lmms.
It would be kind of an AFP with a library of file references to fragments.
I also think that if only the current sample-track was given a FX-connection, it would be perfect as a loop container, so i DEFINITIVELY do NOT recommend removing current Sample-track functionality from LMMS. Current functionality allow LMMS to be used as a LoopEngine and actually gives LMMS same'ish power as SonyAcidStudio (not pitch and pace control, ofcause, but thats actually also quite buggy in SAS
musikBear
on 6 Oct 2016
If the current sample track could start anywhere it would serve both of these purposes. I don't see the need to have two separate types.
Dealing with "fragments" would probably require "play from anywhere" to be implemented anyway.
Spekular
on 6 Oct 2016
But afaik, _'play from anywhere'_ is not possible, with current engine, and fragments, would eradicate the need (imo
musikBear
on 7 Oct 2016
But afaik, _'play from anywhere'_ is not possible, with current engine, and fragments, would eradicate the need
In a way they could be the same, wouldn't they? Play from anywhere could be implemented as fragments split at every 1/192 of a beat. However I fear this could possibly end with the same situation as where the previous attempt was abandoned, where you have no idea where in the audio file to start playback once the BPM is automated.
One possible solution to that situation would be to assign a BPM value to sounds placed on the track, and change their speed when the master BPM changes. This way there would always be a constant reference time that eliminates the problem. Maybe there would also be an option not to assign a BPM value which would keep the current behaviour (only play from the beginning) and perhaps call it something like... one-shot mode?
grejppi
on 7 Oct 2016
In my opinion we should try to implement @diizy work on sampletrack. I know that automate the tempo wouldn't work. But better to have a sample track which works with a static tempo and one can start from any song position than our damn unfortunately situation with this.
BaraMGB
on 7 Oct 2016
you have no idea where in the audio file to start playback once the BPM is automated.
This problem is a tough cookie to crack. If we were to do 80/20 rule (focus on 80% of use-cases rather than 20% of use-cases), let's agree that the changing of tempo will need to be addressed but must be done as a separate task.
In my opinion we should try to implement @diizy s work on sampletrack.
He had a working example but there were performance issues and the timing was off. I had a theory about it all but he seemed to disagree.
@tresf: [...] Note that the symptoms are pretty much the same as before. At 800% zoom, the visual wave is drawn off by the same margin of error as the audible sound.
@diizy: [...] So as far as I can tell, the graphical errors are coincidental and not
really related to the audio errors. I've ruled out any possibility of there being any error in the frameposition calculations [...]
tresf
on 7 Oct 2016
I fully support @tresf in respect to presenting a solution for sample-track with no tempo change ability, That specific issue can be solved outside lmms (audacity), the current LMMS-issue is (imo) that lmms does not support vocal/ recorded-tracks in a usable fashion. I have already presented a very simple idea in 2014:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-4G_5d1ggU
Again NO BPM fitting neither. ..But it could 'work'
The 'fraction-idea' is much more advanced, but has the added advantage as being usable in a sampler-model, and the links points to an open source project, for exactly that :)
Imo the tempo-modification of samples, and fitting of BPM is not _bound_ to a "accompaniment-track". If these two could be intellectually separated, my feeling is that it would be a benefit for the whole process.
-and fgs ! do not dump current sample-track, it is pure magic with loops!
musikBear
on 13 Oct 2016
BaraMGB
on 22 Nov 2016
@BaraMGB You have FIXED that!
Best fix since lmms got connections to vst-dials
Huge thanks! 💯
musikBear
on 22 Nov 2016
There's a lot to do, yet. And tempo automation isn't possible. But it could be a start.
BaraMGB
on 22 Nov 2016
@BaraMGB You have FIXED that!
IIRC in Vesa's branch there were tempo sync (fixed-tempo, not even entertaining variable tempo) and performance issues with the previous attempt. The YouTube video looks like performance is OK, how's the syncing?
This feature is very exciting indeed.
tresf
on 22 Nov 2016
The YouTube video looks like performance is OK, how's the syncing?
If you look at the video: the sampletrack is a rendered version of the bb track. Both plays perfectly synced. If I cleaned up and fixed some problems I can provide a PR.
But for automating the song tempo we need really a better solution (e.g. tempo track)
BaraMGB
on 22 Nov 2016
@BaraMGB
There's a lot to do, yet. And tempo automation isn't possible. But it could be a start.
Imo it is more than a start. Ofcause tempo-synch is the holy grael, but lets say that never comes, even then, this what you have here is just super, because the problem with no-play inside a recording is by far the worst. Tempo-synch can be done in audacity, and it is honestly not a must-have feature in lmms, whereas play-inside-recording very much is a lmms must! Imo you have fixed this 🍾
musikBear
on 23 Nov 2016
I want to invite everyone for testing the sample track in RC2. Thanks for testing.
BaraMGB
on 7 Jan 2017
Excuse me, I just wish to insist on BPM matching and general stertching of sample tracks, as suggested by Umcaruje.
ghost
on 29 Jul 2017
LMMS can't really be even considered as even a partial replacement for FL Studio until it has the ability to cut up samples and change pitch and tempo. Doing that separately in Audacity doesn't make sense because in that case you have to know exactly what you want ahead of time and type it in as exact numbers instead of experimenting. This is a creative process and FL Studio does it in one fast interface.
BenMcLean
on 1 Dec 2017
@BenMcLean we all are aware of the issues you pointed out. But what can you do to help?
BaraMGB
on 1 Dec 2017
We do have a request for testing on #3947 for those willing to test. Please jump on our chat server to help push this forward. https://lmms.io/chat.
In regards to slicing samples, to @BaraMGB's point, we need help first and foremost. Our mission statement isn't to be a full replacement to commercial software so these types of comments often do more harm than good.
tresf
on 1 Dec 2017
we all are aware of the issues you pointed out.
Evidently not, because I was responding to the guy who said, "Tempo-synch can be done in audacity, and it is honestly not a must-have feature in lmms," to point out that it is totally a must-have feature.
But what can you do to help?
I don't know. This is such a basic feature that the whole project is kind of a non-starter without it, no offense meant. If I was going to get into music programming, I'm not sure if I'd be adding this to LMMS or making a whole different program specifically dedicated to sampling from the ground up.
Our mission statement isn't to be a full replacement to commercial software
Yes it totally is. From the README:
LMMS is a free cross-platform alternative to commercial programs like FL Studio®
BenMcLean
on 1 Dec 2017
@BenMcLean please rant elsewhere. This is your first warning. This thread is a place to talk about adding functionality, not complain about it. If you have problems with the way we've worded our front page, please open an issue here: https://github.com/LMMS/lmms.io/issues/new.
Our mission statement is to provide a free, cross-platform tool for making music. In order for it to remain free, we need help, not hindrance. Stuff like "LMMS is a non-starter" is an opinionated editorial and belongs elsewhere.
On the other hand, if you have insight into implementing this feature, this is the correct place to start.
tresf
on 1 Dec 2017
Alternative to != exact replacement. If you want sonething that's exactly
like FL Studio, that already exists. It's called FL Studio.
Spekular
on 1 Dec 2017
@Spekular please do not fuel the arguments, we need to move this conversation elsewhere, perhaps Discord https://lmms.io/chat, but not here.
tresf
on 1 Dec 2017
Should "FX Mixer Support" be checked now that master allows sample tracks to be sent to FX channels?
I would also propose a related enhancement, "Settings per Clip". Applying different effects, volume adjustments, and fx mixer channels to different samples in the same track would be very flexible cough and FL Studio does it cough.
Spekular
on 17 Aug 2019
Just noticed "Drag samples to new TCO segments" is also implemented in master. Sidebar samples, at least, can be dragged in. You can't drop a file on lmms to add a TCO, but that seems a bit like a separate issue or sub-issue.
Spekular
on 17 Aug 2019
This: [Sample distinction via naming / color coding] was partially done via #5573
It was possible to differ each sample in sampletrack via their own colors.
qnebra
on 15 Nov 2020
Good point! I checked off Colorization support #1360, and removed the / color coding part of Sample distinction via naming / color coding since it was redundant.
Since samples can be dragged from the sidebar to a sample track I also checked off Easier access to built-in samples, probably through drag/drop #4221. I added Drag samples in from other applications to that section since that's a request I've seen.
Spekular
on 17 Nov 2020
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