Gt-new-horizons-modpack: Total Teleportation Rebalance

[GTNH-Colen]

Per request of @Dream-Master I have opened a new ticket here to discuss the total rebalancing of teleportation options. I have included all long range teleportation options I deemed relevant in the tables below, please let me know if I have missed something. Tried to include options that were posted in the GTNH spreadsheet.

| Item | Current Tier | Ability |
| ------------- | ------------- | ------------- |
| Telepad | UHV+ | Teleport to Coords |
| AE2 Spatial | LuV | Interdim |
| Celestial Gateway | LuV | Intradim |
| Wand Focus: Celestial Gateway | LuV | Intradim |
| Planar Gateway | MV | Interdim |
| Waystones | HV | Interdim |
| Ruby Slippers | HV | Interdim |
| Infusion of Otherwhere | HV | Interdim |
| Teleposer | IV | Interdim |
| Teleporter (IC2) | LuV | Intradim |
| Teleporter (GT) | UHV+ | Teleport to Coords |
| Charm of Dislocation | UV | Interdim |
| Enhanced Charm of Dislocation | UHV+ | Interdim |
| Stargate | UHV+/Meme Tier | Interdim |
| Relocator | UHV+ | Interdim |

Interdim = Between dimensions.
Intradim = Inside said dimension.
Teleport to Coords = Teleport anywhere, even locations not yet visited.

Below I have ranked them by what I deemed "usefulness", obviously this is subjective and I am sure many of you will disagree. I have also removed some options such as the stargate given it is more for prestige than actual usefulness. The reason I have done this is so that they can be tiered appropriately.

| Item | Current Tier | Ranking |
| ------------- | ------------- | ------------- |
| AE2 Spatial | LuV | 1 |
| Celestial Gateway | LuV | 2 |
| Wand Focus: Celestial Gateway | LuV | 3 |
| Waystones | HV | 4 |
| Ruby Slippers | HV | 5 |
| Planar Gateway | MV | 6 |
| Infusion of Otherwhere | HV | 7 |
| Teleporter (IC2) | LuV | 8 |
| Charm of Dislocation | UV | 9 |
| Teleposer | IV | 10 |
| Relocator | UHV+ | 11 |
| Enhanced Charm of Dislocation | UHV+ | 12 |
| Teleporter (GT) | UHV+ | 13 |
| Telepad | UHV+ | 14 |

Honestly I think the current main issue is the inclusion of stargate parts in certain items, the stargate is a meme item and thus as such using items from it to balance other stuff is really silly and leads to virtually impossible recipes.

Bringing down the top tier items massively and also moving a few middle bits around I think would once and for all resolve the lunacy of teleportation options in GTNH.

[Prometheus0000]

Did you look at the last page of the spreadsheet? Also, you only have two items?

[GTNH-Colen]

Did you look at the last page of the spreadsheet? Also, you only have two items?

Accidentally pressed enter when typing lmao, gonna take me a min to finish this up.

[chochem]

Very much in support of this rebalance! Galacticraft rockets are just a pain to deal with and not everybody wants to rely on witchery. I would propose spreading these out from IV to UV+
according to your ranking.

@GTNH-Colen just two small correction to the spreadsheet:

1. the charm of dislocation currently needs a draconic core, so that makes it like UV+, not ZPM.
2. I dont know anything called a Portable Teleporter. However there is the Relocator from Graviation Suite which is indeed UHV+ which might be meant by this and would otherwise just be missing.

[GTNH-Colen]

Very much in support of this rebalance! Galacticraft rockets are just a pain to deal with and not everybody wants to rely on witchery. I would propose spreading these out from IV to UV+
according to your ranking.

@GTNH-Colen just two small correction to the spreadsheet:

1. the charm of dislocation currently needs a draconic core, so that makes it like UV+, not ZPM.
2. I dont know anything called a Portable Teleporter. However there is the Relocator from Graviation Suite which is indeed UHV+ which might be meant by this and would otherwise just be missing.

Updated, thanks.

[repo-alt]

What mod is Planar Gateway?

[chochem]

Planar Gateway is from Thaumic Horizons. There is some more info in the spreadsheet.

[repo-alt]

Pocket plane is working? Last time I heard it was quite broken

[chochem]

no idea. havent used it.

[psuemno]

I'm of the opinion that interdimensional teleportation is significantly better than intradimensional teleporting. The former is extremely useful and practical for moving between different planets without having to deal with Galacticraft's many issues and the ever-present risk of losing a rocket to some unavoidable bullshit. The latter is pretty much just for teleporting between people's bases on a server if you decided to spread out absurd distances. Most intradimensional things I'd want to travel to are a quick trip with speedy boots and/or a glider.

As such I'm of the opinion that the Celestial Gateway and accompanying wand focus are extremely overcosted for what they do. Ichorium is extremely expensive (at least for a primarily magic-focused player like myself) and sparing a few bars of the stuff for every teleport location is unreasonable considering the dimensional limitations. I believe it should either work interdimensionally, or have the ichorium changed to just ichor to make it cheaper and easier to make.

Also, given that interdimensional travel is so important, the benchmark I generally weight other options against is Witchery Waystones. For me, those would absolutely be number 1 on your "usefulness" chart (if you assume accessibility and cost play a part in how useful something is). I have not played with them since the recipe changes, but my impression is that while they are much more expensive they are not prohibitively so. I think other options need to be looked at and brought more in-line with what Witchery provides.

Since space travel is so janky, intradimensional teleportation is something that should be made significantly more accessible. Consider how the official servers have gone to great lengths to allow teleportation between dimensions with public Stargates to cut rocket launches completely out of the picture, and how often used /home and /tpa are used. That is not something that should be locked behind absurd meme recipes for everyone else without the luxury of playing on the official servers.

[GTNH-Colen]

Also, given that interdimensional travel is so important, the benchmark I generally weight other options against is Witchery Waystones. For me, those would absolutely be number 1 on your "usefulness" chart (if you assume accessibility and cost play a part in how useful something is). I have not played with them since the recipe changes, but my impression is that while they are much more expensive they are not prohibitively so. I think other options need to be looked at and brought more in-line with what Witchery provides.

The "usefulness" chart I created was looking at them without regard of current costs so we can see how we would tier them if we remake all of their recipes. A few options are reusable and can be hand held so that makes them much more useful than witchery waystones which is why I put many above them. Remaking waystones for every location and teleport to those locations (Esp with the increased cost) gets annoying after a while.

I can understand that certain people want to enforce rockets use because it's cooler or something but practically with how buggy they are it just ends up making peoples lives more difficult. There is really absolutely no fun in spending hours making your first rocket for it to immediately blow up because your game couldn't load the moon in before you died (Happened to me the first time). I do agree though that interdimensional travel is far more useful which is why all interdimensional travel options are ranked higher up. Hopefully we can rerank these from late IV up.

[psuemno]

A few options are reusable and can be hand held so that makes them much more useful than witchery waystones which is why I put many above them.

That's why I set up my teleporting circle in the Spectre Dimension, so it was _sorta_ handheld....

Things like being handheld are definitely important considerations. I think every method should have certain questions asked and answered to determine how useful they are, and then have the costs balanced appropriately:

• Does it require setup on-location? If so, how extensive is it?
• Does it consume an item to teleport? If so, how expensive is it?
• Does it have some other cost or risk, e.g. EU or getting stuck in a spatial cell?
• Is it point-to-point or can it be activated with a portable hand-held item?
• Is it interdimensional or intradimensional?

Once these questions are answered, it might be best to just rebuild every recipe from the ground up with more appropriate costs. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with enough of these methods to provide the answers, especially since some require delving deep into mods I'm mostly unfamiliar with (e.g. Planar Gateway) or lack the resources to explore in my current playthrough.

[combusterf]

Reformulated table, some question marks remain thanks to mod obscurity

Name | interdim | source infra | dest infra | dest visited | usage cost
--- | --- | --- | --- | --- | ---
Teleporter (IC2) | :red_circle: No | :orange_circle: Yes | :green_circle: Cheaper | :red_circle: Yes | :green_circle: EU
Celestial Gateway | :red_circle: No | :orange_circle: Needs power? | :red_circle: Yes | :red_circle: Yes | :green_circle: Free
Wand Focus: Celestial Gateway | :red_circle: No | :green_circle: No | :red_circle: Yes | :red_circle: Yes | :large_blue_circle: Vis?
Infusion of Otherwhere | :orange_circle: To spawn* | :yellow_circle: Just blocks? | :green_circle: No | :red_circle: Yes | :red_circle: Mostly single-use
Ruby Slippers | :orange_circle: To spawn* | :green_circle: No | :green_circle: No | :red_circle: Yes | :orange_circle: infusion power
Telepad | :green_circle: Yes | :red_circle: Yes | :large_blue_circle: No? | :large_blue_circle: No? | :green_circle: RF
Teleporter (GT) | :green_circle: Yes | :red_circle: Yes | :green_circle: No | :green_circle: No | :yellow_circle: EU + Nitrogen
Stargate | :green_circle: Yes | :red_circle: Yes | :red_circle: Yes | :red_circle: Yes | :red_circle: You won't
AE2 Spatial | :green_circle: Yes | :red_circle: Significant | :red_circle: Significant | :red_circle: Yes | :green_circle: AE Power
Teleposer (BM) | :green_circle: Yes | :yellow_circle: Just blocks | :red_circle: Yes | :red_circle: Yes | :green_circle: LP
Waystones | :green_circle: Yes | :yellow_circle: Just blocks | :yellow_circle: Initially | :red_circle: Yes | :red_circle: Mostly single-use
Charm of Dislocation | :green_circle: Yes | :green_circle: No | :green_circle: No | :red_circle: Yes | :yellow_circle: Durability (Pearls?)
Enhanced Charm of Dislocation | :green_circle: Yes | :green_circle: No | :green_circle: No | :red_circle: Yes | :yellow_circle: Durability (Pearls?)
Relocator | :green_circle: Yes | :green_circle: No | :green_circle: No | :red_circle: Yes | :green_circle: EU
Planar Gateway | :large_blue_circle: Yes? | :red_circle: Yes? | :yellow_circle: ? | :red_circle: Yes? | :green_circle: Free?

[combusterf]

I agree with most of the line set out previously - As long as Galacticraft is buggy (Launch success without losing the rocket was 60% for me? It really liked to just despawn) interdim should be available at the same tier - and since waystones are pretty much the most laborious of them all let's leave it where they are at - maybe check up on the new warp requirements. Stargate can remain a gimmick, and the rest could be sorted to relative (in)convenience:

HV: Waystones + Otherwhere (Travel anchors are here as well)
EV: Celestial gateways, Slippers, IC2 teleporter
IV: Spatial (reward the effort), BM Teleposer (for those not afraid of warp). (Enderchests are here as well)
LuV: Nothing new a.k.a Blood magic without warp.
ZPM: Planar gateway, T1 Dislocation charm
UV: Relocator, Enhanced Dislocation, Telepad if it doesn't let you pick arbitrary dimensions
UHV+: Telepad, GT teleporter (post T8-rocket), Stargate

[Dream-Master]

sorry but after rebalance no Teleporter before late IV/early LuV

[Glease]

even teleporters that are not able to move between different worlds?

[bartimaeusnek]

Planar gateway isnt really a teleporter, since it only works for a specific dim. its like the spectre key.

[Dream-Master]

ok but waystones are interdim so why hv ?

[Dream-Master]

maybe intra dim at late ev.
I want to buff rails to let people building more rails before intradim teleporters.

[combusterf]

ok but waystones are interdim so why hv ?

Because galacticraft is exceedingly unreliable and people should not suffer multi-day setbacks just because of bugs. There is no other reason.

[Dream-Master]

we have gc code and we are allowed to fork it and make a own version. Allow interdim tp in HV is just to early.

[Prometheus0000]

• I've never had the slightest problem with rockets, isn't it only mp people that have problems? And that's why you can use the rocket to access a stargate or something, right?
• For the planar gateway, can't you add another entrance in another dim to allow transportation across them? https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding-java-edition/minecraft-mods/2361575-thaumic-horizons-v1-1-9-thaumcraft-4-addon?comment=1811 The mod author says you can connect different dimensions.
• Doesn't the infusion of otherwhere just use infusion power? You can't reinfuse or something. I'm pretty sure it's not single use. you just need to recharge with a rite of charging.
• Waystones should be IV minimum, they're still ludicrously easy.
• Infusion of otherwhere should also be made much harder (but I don't have experience with it, so I can't say whether it should be EV/IV min).
• Ruby Slippers should probably be EV+
• Does the IC2 teleporter not explode anymore then?
• If we're modifying GC, should we change how the Short Range Telepad works? Or is it from an addon?
• I think it's be fine to move the CGs (and wand) down to EV, given that you can't use them interdimensionally, and there's rarely a lot of places in a single dim to go to anyway.
• The relocator is way worse than the ECD, it should not use it in the recipe.

• I'm sure this doesn't need to be said, but there shouldn't be stargate components in the recipes. Maybe the crystal in the top items.

• About rails, where and why do you see people using them? If it's not that far, I think people would just use a faster method to walk, like the upgraded wayfarer boots or voidwalker boots. And unless you're on mp, I don't really think people go that far from their base that often. The only thing I can think of is from your base to the End portal, or from the Nether portal to a Stronghold. If you want to buff rails, maybe make them easier to make? Or easier to lay down a huge line of them? Since you need a metric ton of them to go anywhere.

[yukieiji]

@Dream-Master Is it possible to add some sort of remedy for death in the GC dimension? For example, give a single-use rocket(can only go to dead dims) when death in the GC dimension.

I also hope that lightning strikes on Venus will not burn out the rocket. Sometimes the lightning has prevented them from returning to Earth....

[0lafe]

If otherwhere is pre T1 rocket, it skips half (iirc the more buggy half?) of rocket use. With 2+ people you can get 2 way travel to specific dims as well. It's not very good, you'll need to still launch to many planets, and takes some witchery.

Waystones could very much be IV in crafting somehow. If they also have a decent cost associated with them, they could be the lazy IV option for persistent additive interdim xport. If AE spatial is here and costs less, but needs much more setup, that could be balanced. Could we possibly use ichor in waystones?

I mostly support what the lists here say, but I'd rather see periods in which waystones are the clear winner to AE spatial. Making them the same tier, with pros and cons to each seems fair. Waystones are stupid simple tho, so they need somewhat of a high cost.

Are DE portals separate from the dislocation pedestals?

I think it'll be a lot more work to make rails useful than simply moving intradim to EV+. We can try I guess, but imo there isn't nearly enough outside you base you need to use consistently enough for them to be great.

[yukieiji]

If otherwhere is pre T1 rocket, it skips half (iirc the more buggy half?) of rocket use. With 2+ people you can get 2 way travel to specific dims as well. It's not very good, you'll need to still launch to many planets, and takes some witchery.

Wouldn't the same be true if you placed a teleporter on a GC dimension?

We need to travel to a few planets before reach a tier where InterDim's teleporters can be used, and I consider the difficulty of recovery to be high when die while traveling for that planets....

[Prometheus0000]

We need to travel to a few planets before reach a tier where InterDim's teleporters can be used,

That's not true at all right now? Or do you mean it should be? You can make teleposers without going to the moon, even if it is a huge pain in the ass. And waystones and otherwhere infusion, even if they're likely to change. And please be more specific, 'placed a teleporter' doesn't tell anyone what you mean at all.

[yukieiji]

@Prometheus0000 The teleporter who said 'placed a teleporter' is referring to InterDim teleporteres.
We can currently create an InterDim teleporter in HV, but after the rebalancing, Dream says there will be no teleporter before early LuV/late IV.

[0lafe]

pre good interdim xport

It's worse than any teleporter by a lot. Solo you can really just bind it to one spot and TP back to it, so its useful for returning from a planet. With 2 people you can bind one persons spot to another planet, but it only links those dimensions. If you want to link another dim, you'd need to use a new rocket.

teleporter is visit once, then you can always teleport. Otherwhere needs a revisit every time if you're solo, and every time you go to a new dimension with 2 people.

[yukieiji]

Single-Use Rocket I'm proposing are the ones that can only go to dead planets. not suggesting rocket that could go to other planets.
The concern that other people can also use that is not a problem if it is setting so that only player who dead player can use it.

[chochem]

@combusterf @0lafe

Are DE portals separate from the dislocation pedestals?

The Charm of Dislocation has a finite durability, 21 uses, after which it is destroyed. It also goes to only one place.
The Enhanced Charm of Dislocation has infinite durability and can store many, many coordinates. It only uses enderpearls

Pedestal: you place the (normal) Charm of Dislocation in a pedestal. It then is no longer portable, but in return it doesnt use durability. This is how I have often seen people use the charm in other packs, with one pedestal+charm on each side for an easy to use, permanent teleport connection. (so you need to craft 4 charms per connection, as a pedestal also takes a charm)

[Prometheus0000]

Actually I think the portal is a different thing, but it still uses the charms.

[chochem]

Oh yeah, I am stupid. the DE portal is also a different thing. the key item is the receptacle but you also need an additional charm. so it needs 2 charms + 4 draconic cores at the moment to build a single portal.

It has the advantage that it can transport mobs and items too and is flexible with shape, size, and direction, so e.g. you can make a big one under a powered spawner to catch the mobs and teleport them somewhere else and stuff like that.

Of course, it can also be used for normal interdim transport but its more costly and bulky. But it looks cooler I suppose: https://ss.brandon3055.com/5ea7f

[boubou19]

The Charm of Dislocation has a finite durability, 21 uses, after which it is destroyed. It also goes to only one place.

The Charm of Dislocation can be repaired in a thaumic restorer...

[Prometheus0000]

Dream's dream of mining stuff on other planets and sending it back through rails can finally come true with this portal!

[Prometheus0000]

See also #3083, #3386, #5304, #5186, #5991.

[Prometheus0000]

I looked at the GT teleporter and there doesn't seem to be a way to force it to not let you choose any location or dim to teleport to, aside from disabling interdim teleporting. Should we disable it or make it intradim only? If we leave it the way it is, people could access other people's garden dims and such if it becomes craftable.

[Prometheus0000]

I did some work regarding this and came up with some preliminary recipe changes, they could also go in the assline or require the research station, whatever, but we need a starting point:

Intradim:
Travel Anchor:


Top and bottom swapped out for elevators. Or it only me that thinks the TA is too hard?

IC2 Teleporter:


FGs from T6 to T3, Diamond lens to NS.

Celestial Gateway:

Ichorium Ingot -> Ichor
Celestial Pearl:
Same change
Celestial Recall:
No change

GT Teleporter:


Borrowed from a wiki, HEFCx3, FG T5x3, Data Orbx2, ZPM machine hull. Also, would need to have the Interdim option turned off, and a reasonable voltage set (currently UHV).

Interdim, but weird/hard
AE2 Spatial:
Change the Spatial Processor Tier I recipe voltage to IV from LuV

Ruby Slippers:


Mytryl Crystals, Blood Burned String replace Attuned Stone and Golden Thread

Spirit of Otherwhere (needed to become Otherwhere attuned):


Redstone Soup, Brew of Flowing Spirit, Quantum Eye, Eye of Galgador, Bound Diamond, Celestial Pearl. This probably need to be harder.

Waystone (these are consumed each teleport):


Quantum Star, Otherwhere Chalk, Ender Shard, Ender Shard (different item), Weak Blood Shard, Iridium Plate. Essentia undetermined.

Keystone Receptacle (needed in structure for teleporting between planar locations, I'm not too familiar with it):


Planar Conduit, Travel Anchor, IC2 Teleporter, Mysterious Crystal, Waystone, Celestial Pearl, FG T6, Ender Shard, Block of Ichorium. Essentia undetermined.

Interdim, the good ones:
Teleposer:
No Change

Charm of Dislocation:


FG T7, Quintuple Draconium Plates, Quituple Naquadria Plates, PPIC wafers, Blocks of Neutronium, Gene Sample with Teleport Effect (Bees). May or may not be consumable depending on how you use it, ie: normally or in a pedestal.

Telepad:


Quintuple SpNt Plates, FG T8, Fusion Coil Blocks, Wyvern Core.

Relocator:


Infinity Ingots, FG T8, Awakened Cores, Fusion Coil Blocks, Chaotic Capacitor Bank.

Enhanced Charm of Dislocation:


A bunch of previous stuff, Stargate Core Crystal, Chaotic Cores, FG T10, Eternal Singularity.
Also see https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/54497873/80331406-e5ec3080-883f-11ea-863c-0256d5ff089f.png for Colen's suggestion.

[Prometheus0000]

I examined the Planar Gateway, and it does indeed let you travel between dims.

1. Set up a Planar Vortex (see the TH tab). For testing you can use the creative one, different essentia produces different dims
2. Use (drop) a primordial pearl on it to change it to a non-crafting one to a linking to a personal dim one
3. Create 1+ Blank Planar Keystones (one for every entrance other than the original one)
4. Enter and right-click the BPK on the entrance portal. It will change color, but not name
5. Build the Multi for the receptacle where you want to enter/exit the dim (this is done outside the personal dim, like on the moon), use the BPK and wand on it
6. Enter portal to go in. Note that it likes to put you in a softlock situation where you're inside the portal, and can't dig out from there. The portals seem to always open in the 4 cardinal direction's sides in the middle (4 is the max portals too), so dig them out first!
7. If the original entrance was on a another dim, you can go interdim that way. Or add another portal the same way as 5 in a different dim. You can only have 5 entrances/exits
8. You can create more personal dims the same way as 1+2. Note that these appear to be the same dim (69), just spaced out, with an 'impenetrable' (eyebulbs destroy it) barrier around the usable area

[GTNH-Colen]

GT Teleporter:


Borrowed from a wiki, HEFCx3, FG T5x3, Data Orbx2, ZPM machine hull. Also, would need to have the Interdim option turned off, and a reasonable voltage set (currently UHV).

After some thought I really think this shouldn't have a recipe given the potential abuses of it, teleporting out of bounds, into private dimensions, dimensions that will corrupt players, breaking progression etc there are so many things that could go wrong for little gain. Suggest we just straight up disable the recipe.

Interdim, but weird/hard
AE2 Spatial:
Change the Spatial Processor Tier I recipe voltage to IV from LuV

Ruby Slippers:


Mytryl Crystals, Blood Burned String replace Attuned Stone and Golden Thread

Spirit of Otherwhere (needed to become Otherwhere attuned):


Redstone Soup, Brew of Flowing Spirit, Quantum Eye, Eye of Galgador, Bound Diamond, Celestial Pearl. This probably need to be harder.

I don't have much experience with witchery but based off some chats with people who do use it this seems exceedingly expensive, perhaps we can replace the Mytryl with manyllum in the ruby slippers and the spirit of otherwhere should definitely not be using a bound diamond (These are really bloody annoying to make after having to make a ton for infinity armour).

Waystone (these are consumed each teleport):


Quantum Star, Otherwhere Chalk, Ender Shard, Ender Shard (different item), Weak Blood Shard, Iridium Plate. Essentia undetermined.

This was literally nerfed a few months ago, I see 0 reason to need to attack it again and make it more useless.

Interdim, the good ones:
Teleposer:
No Change

This is currently IV but quite annoying to actually get in said tier, so leaving it be is probably okay.

Charm of Dislocation:


FG T7, Quintuple Draconium Plates, Quituple Naquadria Plates, PPIC wafers, Blocks of Neutronium, Gene Sample with Teleport Effect (Bees). May or may not be consumable depending on how you use it, ie: normally or in a pedestal.

What? This is an absolutely ludicrous nerf, for one these teleports break after a few uses and secondly you're forcing people into bees and using a crap ton of high tier components for the T7 field generators? Insane.

Telepad:


Quintuple SpNt Plates, FG T8, Fusion Coil Blocks, Wyvern Core.

I'm uncertain if this can also be used to teleport to any dimension. If that is the case then this needs to be taken off the recipe list as well I think, if it only does coordinates then I see no real issue with it or the recipe proposed.

Relocator:


Infinity Ingots, FG T8, Awakened Cores, Fusion Coil Blocks, Chaotic Capacitor Bank.

Enhanced Charm of Dislocation:


A bunch of previous stuff, Stargate Core Crystal, Chaotic Cores, FG T10, Eternal Singularity.
Also see https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/54497873/80331406-e5ec3080-883f-11ea-863c-0256d5ff089f.png for Colen's suggestion.

This is just out of control for the last two here, completely disproportionally expensive given what its use is. These items allow you to teleport to a location you've previously been, they don't give you magic invincibility or make you God they just save time getting back to things like miners or visiting other peoples bases.

Realistically no one cares about the relocator, people want the enhanced charm of dislocation and I stick with my proposed prior recipe in the PR I submitted many months ago at this point.

Sorry for the slow reply btw, I'm quite busy with uni atm so can't always reply super quickly.

[KiloJoel]

It would be a shame to lose the ability to have a personal dimension using planar gateways at a reasonable tier. In my opinion they're more interesting than garden worlds.

The problem with using one just from the original node, i.e. without making the gateway, is that if it gets deactivated, you lose access to that place, along with all the stuff in it (apart from breaking through from another sphere, but that's hardly a good solution). This is very easy to do because it's held open with 6 vortex attenuators, breaking any of them will destroy it, and vortex attenuators have 0 hardness (See https://github.com/GTNewHorizons/GT-New-Horizons-Modpack/issues/3037).

I think instead of making them a high tier convoluted way to teleport, a better solution would be to remove their ability to be used for teleportation, allowing their primary function of a custom personal area to still be useable. Maybe only 1 portal per pocket plane if this is possible.

[Dream-Master]

I will look over all recipes and do the change myself. I let this open for more discussion first

[KiloJoel]

Maybe only 1 portal per pocket plane if this is possible.

This is the code for assigning a portal to a pocket dimension, returning 0 prevents a portal from being made, so this could easily be changed to only allow 1 portal per pocket plane.

[Prometheus0000]

GT Teleporter:
If it's too annoying to change the GT Teleporter's voltage, then it's fine being disabled.

Ruby Slippers:
The Mytryl was to gate it to IV, otherwise with manyullyn it's EV. Considering it's one-way, that's probably ok.

Spirit of Otherwhere:
I was trying to grab some magicy stuff, I couldn't really think of anything for that slot. And I don't know if you can go beyond 6 items for the kettle. We can change kettle items, right? What about a Blood Diamond instead? That only requires a T4 altar and an exquisite diamond.

Waystone:
These are ludicrously cheap. They need to be waaay more expensive than they currently are, or no one will use anything else for most of the pack. And dream doesn't want interdim 'before late IV/early LuV'. So the recipe needs to reflect that.

I definitely think the otherwhere chalk should be used instead of regular chalk. The two ender shard types can be obtained with mob farms, and the blood shard is an easy drop. You can also make it (even automagically) if you get far enough in to BM to have excess blood. The iridium gates it, and could probably be changed to something else that's IV. The QS is to make it kinda hard, but could also be changed to something easier.

Charm of Dislocation:
You know you can use them in the pedestal and they don't use durability, right? I was also thinking of it more as a component of the Enhanced one in terms of difficulty. How about removing the GS and lowering the tier of the FGs by 1?

Telepad:
You need to use a Coordinate Selector by clicking a block. I also forgot you need 9 for 1 working telepad, so maybe reduce the FG by 1 tier here too?

Relocator/ECoD:
Should probably be an assline recipes, and use the QC to unlock. Relocator should be easy enough to make that you're tempted to do so compared to the far superior ECoD if it's not part of it's recipe.

Are those ZPM parts? I thought we were aiming for UHV or maybe UV for the ECoD? Since it's the best one. I also like the idea of using some of the previous ones in the recipe.

For the relocator, feel free to suggest something else.

[Prometheus0000]

@KiloJoel If it was 1, you could still teleport between places with it, since you have the original entrance still, so there isn't much point in changing it. And if you made it 0, you'd be at risk of losing access without another means of teleporting there.

[KiloJoel]

@KiloJoel If it was 1, you could still teleport between places with it, since you have the original entrance still, so there isn't much point in changing it. And if you made it 0, you'd be at risk of losing access without another means of teleporting there.

Ah, yes, you are right. I'll have more of a think and see if I can propose a different solution. Right now I'm thinking only allow the portal to be created in the same dimension as the node, but not currently sure how easy that is to do.

I think it would be really good to find a solution if it's possible because the proposed change essentially locks the coolest part of thaumic horizons way past the point where you would want to use it.

[GTNH-Colen]

Relocator/ECoD:
Should probably be an assline recipes, and use the QC to unlock. Relocator should be easy enough to make that you're tempted to do so compared to the far superior ECoD if it's not part of it's recipe.

An assline recipe is okay, I can try come up with something at some point for it. Ultimately from what I've heard the relocator is rather shit yes, people only want it as a stepping stone to the ECoD.

Are those ZPM parts? I thought we were aiming for UHV or maybe UV for the ECoD? Since it's the best one. I also like the idea of using some of the previous ones in the recipe.

ZPM field generators but UV for the other parts, it's just a teleport I think a lot of people forget that and tend to go very overkill for these recipes. UV field generators would be acceptable for it though.

[Prometheus0000]

It's basically the same as the ECoD, just less useful (uses a bunch of power that need to be recharged every couple times, limited number of teleport locations).

[ScriptedPiky]

I feel as if the Charm of Dislocation is far cheaper and can theoretically be obtained in ZPM~ while the Telepad requires UHV~; Pluto requirement, a long annoying quest process, and is significantly more expensive due to having to obtain 18 blocks for a one-way teleport from Dim A to Dim B. Additionally, the wyvern cores are quite expensive in themselves for having to get 18 of them total. Instead, I feel as if the Telepad should be an Assline recipe and gated at ZPM with some neutronium in it. Would it seem fair if a one-way transport that requires a very significant amount of energy (remember, it's not enderpearls) to teleport to the desired area?

[Prometheus0000]

I keep forgetting what tier the draconic stuff is, because it's so nonstandard. I'm adjusting some stuff again based on comments.

IC2 Teleporter:

IV motors->EV
IV circuits->lapos
This makes it EV.

CoD Changes:

FG VII->VI (already mentioned)
Neutronium->Europium
PPIC->UHPIC
Nq*->NqAlloy
Remember that you should be using it in a pedestal, so it doesn't get consumed.
This makes it LuV.

Telepad Changes:

FG VIII->FG VII
SpNt->Nq* (also double, not quintuple)
DCore->NPIC
Added Americium plates, and fine tritanium wire
This makes it ZPM. Remember you need 9 at each destination, and you'll probably use them in pairs too.

Relocator Changes:

Should be assline recipe, dunno about unlock voltage in QC and stuff, maybe same as VM II?
Wetware mainframe (UHV)x16, QPICx64, UV sensorx16, UV emitterx16, fusion coil blocksx16, (16xUV SC)x16, FG VIIIx8, fine (americium wirex64)x5. Enderium, soldering alloy, UUM. Unsure about these, maybe a plasma? Also unsure about item numbers, liquids are whatever.
This makes it UV.

ECoD Changes:

Should also be assline recipe, dunno about unlock voltage in QC and stuff, maybe same as raw DD portal?
SG core crystal, ES, inf block, CoDx5, UHV Sensorx4, UHV Emitterx4, relocator, telepad blockx18, teleposerx2, draconic corex16, fine inf wirex64. Unknowwater, soldering alloy, californium for fluids. Also unsure about these. The items are mostly about combining the previous methods into the best one.
This makes it UHV.

How it all works out tierwise:

Intradim:
Travel Anchor: MV(harder)->MV(easier)

IC2 Teleporter: LuV->EV

Celestial Gateway: IV->HV
Celestial Pearl (needed for above): IV->HV
Celestial Recall(teleports to above): IV->HV

GT Teleporter: Impossible->Disabled

Interdim, but weird/hard:
AE2 Spatial: LuV->IV
Hard to setup, easy to get stuck in the spatial dim.

Ruby Slippers: HV->EV
These are one-way remember.

Spirit of Otherwhere (needed to become Otherwhere attuned):HV->EVish
Depending on usefulness, maybe nerfed more?

Waystone (these are consumed each teleport):HV(MV if you get an eye)->IV
Disagreement on tiering, complain to Dream about that.

Keystone Receptacle:HV(MV if you get an eye)->LuV
Maybe should be buffed back to IV? It's annoying to use.
If someone could make it only intradim, or only have one, stable entrance for a pocket dim (and thus change it's use), then it could go back down in tier.

Interdim, the good ones:
Teleposer: IV, no change

Charm of Dislocation: UHV->LuV

Telepad:UHV+->ZPM

Relocator:UHV+->UV

Enhanced Charm of Dislocation:UHV+->UHV

[Prometheus0000]

@Dream-Master We're done here as far as I can see, so have you taken a look?

[Dream-Master]

@Prometheus0000 will do on the weekened

[combusterf]

Two thoughts here:
Waystones are used by ruby slippers, as well as being expendable, so it makes little sense to have them on a higher tier than the slippers themselves.

Since the charm of dislocation is a draconic evolution recipe, I'd personally balance it more around having one draconic core somewhere in the recipe.

Which brings us to a "tier" misconception that seems to be around this thread: magic have separate tiers in their own right. The Planar gateway pretty much requires completing the entire vanilla Thaumcraft tech tree, which effectively means doing the Kami and Warp Theory mods as well if you want to survive with all that warp around. To unlock Draconic Evolution, you need the majority of Thaumcraft and Blood Magic (and thus Kami and Warp Theory for the same reason), an Enceladus-tier rocket, and some other magic addon-mods that I keep forgetting because you're not going to find out unless you can read the questbook JSON file. That is practically two full tiers worth of investments that are lost when discussing "voltage tier" as the difficulty level.

Thus the planar gateway can be IV because it not any less work compared to getting AE Spatial (which has tutorials), and has the downside of a target cap. Similarly, I'd do the CoD with one draconic core, and deck out the rest with early-LuV items rather than Europium (because if you have that, you're basically ZPM anyway)

[Prometheus0000]

Waystones are used by ruby slippers, as well as being expendable, so it makes little sense to have them on a higher tier than the slippers themselves.

From a wiki:

A player must be infused and have sufficient infusion power to use the special features of these boots. Once per 30 minutes, a player can use /chant there's no place like home, and they will be teleported to their spawn point. This will cost 40% of the maximum infusion power, or 60% if the teleportation is cross-dimensional. It can also be used with a bound Waystone, by throwing it on the ground and using the command, which will teleport them to the location of the Waystones binding. This costs 20% of the infusion power. This will consume the Waystone.

You can use them without a waystone. You just have to be infused first. And you don't have to choose the otherwhere infusion.
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Since the charm of dislocation is a draconic evolution recipe, I'd personally balance it more around having one draconic core somewhere in the recipe.

While I would also like to have it in it, I also don't want to make it UHV. Which D. Cores are. This is also why I took it out of the telepad. You'll note that I had one each of the good interdim options unlock each tier, with the more annoying ones unlocking earlier. This would completely break that.

Similarly, I'd do the CoD with one draconic core, and deck out the rest with early-LuV items rather than Europium (because if you have that, you're basically ZPM anyway)

How about more UHPIC wafers instead of the europium blocks? Or did you have an actual suggestion? It needs to be LuV, and NqAlloy blocks sounds boring.
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There's also a fluid solidifier recipe for ichorium. Which probably shouldn't be in there. But yeah, all of BM is both too much, and pointless, since you'd have teleposers by then. And MC is also probably too far.

How about FG VI -> FG V, Ic block -> Ic ingot, MC -> Mytryl Crystal. This would make it IV. I know you still have to do a bunch of research, but IV is when you get the star, and it's supposed to be hard. Though this might make it easier than celestial gateways.

[Dream-Master]

i will check this issue asap to start the rebalance process