Gt-new-horizons-modpack: Suggestion: Ability to use cells instead of buckets in Liquid XP recipes, maybe even extension on the liquid xp crafting and uses.

[Teirdalin]

Which modpack version are you using?

2.0.5.1
#

I like apples, sometimes.

So my suggestion is for the recipes to make random things with liquid xp to allow for cells as well as buckets; buckets are nice for early game automations but due to the low stack size and the fact they hold the same as a cell; feel like universal cells should also be usable in the recipes.

Kinda feel like the liquid xp crafting could perhaps be expanded a bit; perhaps some assembly recipes using liquid xp and different circuit configurations and differing power costs for some other basic things; this would then allow for xp craft costs over 9000kB (outdated joke not intentional); maybe could even add in some chemical bath recipes that use liquid xp too; like say making an ender pearl into a eye of ender for 10,000kB with HV power, of liquid xp, or turning a blaze powder into a blaze rod with 6,000kB liquid xp and some MV power, and other conversions.

Seems like some fun uses could be for the stuff with machine compatibility.

Perhaps we could even add liquid xp as a fuel for the magic energy converters; if we add life essence like in the previous blood magic suggestion to it; this would definitely fit as a fun magic fuel.

[Dream-Master]

Not sure if i can fill liquid ex into cells?

[richardhendricks]

Heavily disagree. I think XP crafting is way too powerful already, and shouldn't be automated.

[Teirdalin]

Not sure if i can fill liquid ex into cells?

Can confirm it definitely works with the universal cells; not with normal though.

Heavily disagree. I think XP crafting is way too powerful already, and shouldn't be automated.

Maybe the current xp crafting could be moved over to machine processing with a balancing power cost/processing time instead of grid crafting; perhaps also increased fluid costs.

Do feel that it could be a good magic energy converter source though.

[0lafe]

Heavily disagree. I think XP crafting is way too powerful already, and shouldn't be automated.

It's not already automated? I'm confused, but also agree it's already too OP. I'd much rather see the whole mechanic removed, or switched to only mob drops. Makes more sense for a mob to give multiple mob drops than create elements imo

[Teirdalin]

Heavily disagree. I think XP crafting is way too powerful already, and shouldn't be automated.

It's not already automated? I'm confused, but also agree it's already too OP. I'd much rather see the whole mechanic removed, or switched to only mob drops. Makes more sense for a mob to give multiple mob drops than create elements imo

I think he might mean that he disagrees with larger scale small storage of it in cells instead of buckets for its crafting recipes, but not quite sure.
If it's OP then moving it to machines with increased costs could help with making it less OP; but apparently people seem to heavily disagree with that logic.
Pretty sure experience would still exist even with exp from mobs disabled though. lol

[Dream-Master]

xp crafting is poor mans uumatter crafting. But xp crafting shouldt that powerful like uumater crafting.

[Scottishprog]

Right now, I see XP crafting as a safety valve for GaAs etc.

If you want to eliminate the mechanic, please find a replacement safety valve.

[sthegreat]

I disagree that As would need another source if xp crafting were removed. Realgar is a pain, but you can get cobaltite ore from the TF and EBF cobaltite for 3 ingots per ore, with just the 120 eu/t ebf.

Gallium is a little more painful early on. Maybe the chance of tiny gallium from sphalerite electrolysis could be increased a bit to compensate.

[Scottishprog]

I really don't have an exact opinion on the final solution... just asking for that sort of thing to be considered...

[Teirdalin]

I thought the general idea here was to allow exp cells to work the same as buckets.
Liquid xp would be near-useless if its crafts were removed; without any new mechanic for it added- save from being used as, you know, liquid xp.

[0lafe]

Right now, I see XP crafting as a safety valve for GaAs etc.
If you want to eliminate the mechanic, please find a replacement safety valve.

I disagree that we need gallium from xp or an equivilant. I've found the gallium from sphalerite to be enough up til now (EV) and now with bauxite I'm set pretty much.

Liquid xp would be near-useless if its crafts were removed; without any new mechanic for it added- save from being used as, you know, liquid xp.

Other than the thing it's used for normally. Mhmm. I'd love if it had some uses that made sense, like making mob drops. If it can do a lot, with the right EU/t tiering and such, it could be a chlorine source, and replace some needs for having mob farms. Which I'm more than in favor of with how annoying farms are with infernals.

the final solution

Your mean eliminating the race of overpowered stuff in gtnh?

[Scottishprog]

I was referring to _how_ one compensated for the removal of XP crafting. I am not pushing for a specific set of replacements, only that those replacements are put in place.

I too like the use of XP as a partial mob replacement. Perhaps have a means of synthesizing from scratch (plus tons of power) as a late game option? "Yay! I reached Tier X, I can spend Tier X- Y tier amount of energy every tick, and lose the mob farms altogether!"

(Where X = an appropriate tier)

To encourage eventual abandonment of mob farms. Mobs are very expensive in the terms of CPU time.

[0lafe]

I was referring to how one compensated for the removal of XP crafting. I am not pushing for a specific set of replacements, only that those replacements are put in place.

Right, I'm about like 95% on the side of "none of these need to be replaced because they shouldn't have existed in the first place" we already got free most things in some way, xp is a boring way to do it with crafting, but I don't think it should make stuff anyway. I like it being a mob thing, I think it's weird to make it a tech thing (iron, gold, gallium, etc...)

[Teirdalin]

Right now, I see XP crafting as a safety valve for GaAs etc.
If you want to eliminate the mechanic, please find a replacement safety valve.

I disagree that we need gallium from xp or an equivilant. I've found the gallium from sphalerite to be enough up til now (EV) and now with bauxite I'm set pretty much.

Liquid xp would be near-useless if its crafts were removed; without any new mechanic for it added- save from being used as, you know, liquid xp.

Other than the thing it's used for normally. Mhmm. I'd love if it had some uses that made sense, like making mob drops. If it can do a lot, with the right EU/t tiering and such, it could be a chlorine source, and replace some needs for having mob farms. Which I'm more than in favor of with how annoying farms are with infernals.

the final solution

Your mean eliminating the race of overpowered stuff in gtnh?

I feel as if liquid xp would make a bit more sense with the mob loot recipes than thaumium for the bees mob fragments; although too easy to get in contrast to thaumium.

[0lafe]

Idk why those are all thaumium. Some make sense, but there's no reason not to use void or ichor on some

[Teirdalin]

Personally I find just killing mobs gives pretty decent loot instead of melting down my metals for it. lol
Anywho, my above suggestions were essentially making mob drops out of liquid xp combined with basic mob parts. :p "turning blaze powder to blade rods" "turning ender pearls to ender eyes with HV power". lol

Maybe too much empathis on blaze powder though, not sure why I was thinking about blazes.

It'd be interesting if we could distill liquid XP into maybe a sort of essence and combine that with different shard dusts to make elemental essence which could then be used in making stuff. Like liquid xp>distill>magic essence>Chem Bath with Fire Shard Dust>Liquid Fire Essence>Liquid Fire Essence + Blaze Powder == Blade Rod.

[0lafe]

I like all of that, I'm just also in favor of not bringing any of the current dust recipes to the fluidxp crafting party

[Teirdalin]

I like all of that, I'm just also in favor of not bringing any of the current dust recipes to the fluidxp crafting party

The current dust recipes could fit in with an earth essence liquid mixed with something else. It'd basically be like an experience machine alchemy, could even go by the logic of how normal alchemy uses a nugget to make +2 nuggets where a tiny dust makes three tiny dusts. Although then mayhaps it'd be too cheap of a recipe for all the processing time and shards. Hmm Maybe 1->2 full dusts instead if something like that was done for basic resources, and then small dusts for the further ones, and then tinys upto a point; mayhaps using more cells worth of earth essence

Too bad we can't combine multiple liquids together in a chem bath; but a chem reactor thooough, hmm. That'd maybe be taking the gimmick too far though at that point as that seems a bit of effort to set all up for the pack devs; which are fairly against using liquid xp to begin with I think.

Maybe I'll make a magic essence suggestion later with some ideas; as that does honestly sound a bit cooler and more reasonable than just crafting with liquid xp by hand.. Could even be expanded with combination essences based on the normal thaumcraft combinations; could reasonably have those be used to make mob drops, maybe use the nutrient mix in the pack as a catalyst with undeath to make rotting flesh, or with beast for porkchops or steak, feather with beast for chicken; ender essence with spider eye for an ender pearl, beast essence with string for spider eye. beast with a cotton for string. It'd give a ton of possibilities and obsolete mob farms a bit instead being replaced with refineries with people using robots with the exp foci on a wand to melt down cobble from a cobble gen into exp for the madness. It'd be beautiful with the vats of all sorts of colors. But of course just six primary aspects would be fine too for; essentially anything with just a bit of creativity. lol Just with less aspects would mean recipes would need either way more liquid; which would the problematic for things like a string as you'd be spending like 8 shards or so and a lot of time and processing power just to make a single string. lol Mes would handle it amazingly though; so it is still viable.

But the undertaking that'd be is a bit out there. I just want something to waste my liquid exp on aside from slowly making basic materials I already have tens of thousands of, or liquid trashing it. lol

[Dream-Master]

did we reopen this issue?

[richardhendricks]

I think there are enough ways to get gallium early game

• Sphalerite dust - 72 Sphalerite dust ~ 1 gallium (RNGesus)
• Gallium comb from Zinc drones - Not that hard to get, drop rate isn't great but if you let them run continuously easy to get enough to pass LV.
• Impure zinc - available from small ores - 9 zinc impure/purified == 1 dust (guaranteed) in LV centrifuge
• Crushed/Purified zinc - available from small ores - 9 zinc crushed/purified == 1 dust (guaranteed) in LV Thermal Centrifuge
• If you get Galvania from IC2 crops, you can take 1 crushed zinc or sphalerite and turn it into 4 purified for the Thermal Centrifuge.

Finding ores now is super easy, and convenient. With the orewand and seismic/hand prospector players should be able to find any ore they need without spending too much time (> 2 hours IMO).

The XP buckets + the super cheap XP berries now make it trivial to skip the nether completely for any gallium, which is not what it was intended to do IMO. I would rather the XP buckets give the Galvania leaves (1 or 9 depending on how generous you are feeling) - that would allow players to expand their current resource instead of completely bypassing it, and would require additional processing in a chemical reactor.

I dunno, I do know some players like setting up infinite supply farms, but doing all that via one single pathway feels wrong.

[richardhendricks]

This is all off-topic, I'll open a new issue to discuss XP buckets rebalancing.

[richardhendricks]

XP bucket rebalance opened in #3783