Gt-new-horizons-modpack: [RFC] GT++ new multi recipes with new tiers

[0lafe]

Which modpack version are you using?

2.0.5.1

What do you suggest instead/what changes do you propose?

Based on what was in #3701 I made some new recipes to make the multis harder to make, as well as put them in more fitting tiers.

Missing recipes right now are: mixer, sifter and the cutting machine

I put them in a spreadsheet too if anyone wants to just look at that instead. It shows what the current recipe is, and a proposed one. Totally willing to change it as I get feedback, but these are some starting recipes I came up with.

General ideas: better tiering, more expensive compared to singleblocks, more tier fitting as well

[Highbeam]

I thought the original idea was to make the recipe harder but keep it within the HV-ZPM tiers (the tiers that most people realistically play).. Here you've moved everything to ZPM and beyond again... I see UV, UHV, UEV in there so I'm not behind this sorry.

I like some of the recipe ideas but I don't see why all these multis need to be moved this high....

1 note: if the Packager has a complex recipe for the Supply Depot Casings then I believe the Supply Depot Casings shouldn't be in the Controller recipe.

[Ghengis88]

I agree with Highbeam, the tiers should not be changed, just make them more expensive

[0lafe]

UV, UHV, UEV

Those are circuits you're seeing. Check the assembler recipes for the casings to see the tier they're in. There's 3 past zpm, all in UV, and all deserving of being in UV. Got rid of the UHV on assembler too because no one wanted it at UHV. For the most part each recipe uses the highest tier circuit possible, requiring you to have the circuit assembler of that tier. I think that pushes the EV stuff to past T2 rocket, and most things get unlocked Midway through a tier.

I agree with Highbeam, the tiers should not be changed, just make them more expensive

Except they can't really be both for more than a tier or two. There's not much in EV or IV that would still be considered expensive in LuV+ especially when that tier pretty much gives you all the ores you could ever want. These multis are good, damn good, and imo need to be tiered to fit that. No reason imo you need a super fast wiremill at IV, or a bender, or much else. For the most part the gt machines can carry you all the way, and the GT++ ones are just an extra help, but if that's all they are, they should be gated imo. They're just a straight buff to single blocks, so while more cost is a big part of it, no one really needs that power pre LuV. Some of the stuff (ebf, vac freezer, assembler) is really, really good. Better than pretty much anything else you can make in any of the later tiers. You can already usually make way more power than you use, so I don't get why we need to let people use even less power for faster speeds. I get that people want them "because PAs suck" which I agree with kinda. They have their use, but they can't really replace a single, single block machine (unless you just wanna put it in the PA for better item management). However the GT++ multis will always be significantly better than any single block, with speeds usually faster than the best possible array, especially around EV/IV. It's huge amounts of speed in a tier that no one needs huge amounts of speed

@draknyte1
@cinobi
@Teirdalin
@richardhendricks
@DoomSquirter

You probably have an opinion or two

[Teirdalin]

I know it may be easy to make UV, ZPM, and UHV circuits and the like for us who have no lives; but increasing the recipes this much means that the majority of people won't even bother with the fun multis.

Maybe tier based multi controllers instead would be a good idea; personally I mostly just use processing arrays and bulk single block machines for things.

[Ghengis88]

I had a discussion with Bryfer erlier today about this, we arrived at the conclution that the multiblocks should be as they are now but that the main problem is that they are to easy to upgrade to the next tier.

as a solution to this Bryfer had the idea that for a machine to work it has to have the singelblock conterpart in a slot in the controller. then you would need to craft all the singelblock machines but have the benefit of the multiblocks

so fo example to have the macerator work in LuV you need to place a Elite Pulverizer in the control block inventory and change the energy hatch.

[0lafe]

I know it may be easy to make UV, ZPM, and UHV circuits and the like for us who have no lives; but increasing the recipes this much means that the majority of people won't even bother with the fun multis

ZPM circuits can be made in IV though. IV is where most of the multis are already. UV circuits are LuV, which is also where some multis are right now. UHV is zpm, which has stuff gated past it. People who don't see these multis won't see mk3 fusion either, or an assembly line. If they don't see them, they don't see them. I put them where I put them because of how good they are, not how fun. Also, they aren't really interesting. They're single blocks that look different, and run for less EU/t + faster. People can play how long they wanna play, but I never understood that as an argument for making things available earlier.

Each one should be cheaper than making a PA I think, while costing higher tier stuff, to put it at a more appropriate tier.

Maybe tier based multi controllers instead would be a good idea; personally I mostly just use processing arrays and bulk single block machines for things.

Isn't that what this is? Or do you mean also no increased cost.

[0lafe]

I had a discussion with Bryfer erlier today about this, we arrived at the conclution that the multiblocks should be as they are now but that the main problem is that they are to easy to upgrade to the next tier.
as a solution to this Bryfer had the idea that for a machine to work it has to have the singelblock conterpart in a slot in the controller. then you would need to craft all the singelblock machines but have the benefit of the multiblocks
so fo example to have the macerator work in LuV you need to place a Elite Pulverizer in the control block inventory and change the energy hatch.

That works for some, but I really don't like it because that's super cheap to upgrade. If the multis are in EV/IV by LuV+ the expensive part becomes the single block, which means pretty much a huge speed bonus/EU discount is applied to every single block that has a GT++ multi, and is after IV. Imo that's dumb. It shows how the GT++ multis are OP though, when this is an increased cost and is pretty damn OP.

[Ghengis88]

Make it a singel block machine and a special GT++ circuit that is expensive tier apropriate then. But i really think pushing the machines to later tiers is the worst possible idea. I think the GT++ placed the machines at very good tiers to motivate players and make them enyoy the game, but at this this discussion says they are to cheap at the moment, but not at the time you first can build them they are not

[Highbeam]

I refer to my previous suggestion: "The Uber Hatch". An Uber Hatch for each tier will essentially determine that multi's maximum tier. "Uber Hatch IV" in the multiblock structure to limit/upgrade the maximum tier recipe of the multi to IV... At least this would be needed for the Assembler... But I'm sure that (and the suggestion from @Ghengis88 about adding a single block to the controller) aren't exactly easy suggestions since they need code changes and you have to get Alk on board to do that...

You have to think about the playthrough and how it goes through so many stages. By EV-ZPM you really are thrashing out your base design and changing it based on new multiblocks/single machines and yes this is the 'fun' part. These multi's really inspired and changed my thought process on how I wanted to design my base. If I did it on single block machines or PA it would've been different.

Since all these machines/multis really make the 'core' machines and are essentially upgrades for what you're already using I fail to see any reason to push them up to high tiers. It takes several months to get to ZPM as things stand, especially with all the recent changes and making the game harder all the time.

I agree with @Ghengis88 that these multis aren't a problem where they are right now. Just the recipe can be made a bit harder and the problematic recipes addressed.

It's probably easier to change the recipe to require something thats tier dependent

[0lafe]

Make it a singel block machine and a special GT++ circuit that is expensive tier apropriate then. But i really think pushing the machines to later tiers is the worst possible idea. I think the GT++ placed the machines at very good tiers to motivate players and make them enyoy the game, but at this this discussion says they are to cheap at the moment, but not at the time you first can build them they are not

While that helps with part of it, a big part is I don't think those tiers should be getting speeds like this. GT++ did a terrible job of fitting them into NH, they have no place a little more than halfway through, they're really, really good and should be put in a tier based on that. It's like you get a zpm wiremill in IV, and instead of putting it back in ZPM we're discussing what EV parts it should take. It's still a cost associated with it, however the cost at EV to make an LuV multi is to make it to LuV then make the multi. That huge cost isn't really emulatable with a single block + circuit imo, nor would I really want to try.

[0lafe]

Since all these machines/multis really make the 'core' machines and are essentially upgrades for what you're already using I fail to see any reason to push them up to high tiers. It takes several months to get to ZPM as things stand, especially with all the recent changes and making the game harder all the time.

I think you're missing my point. I don't agree that the speed bonuses/EU discounts associated with GT++ machines should be available as early as they are. It's less about tiering recipes, but simply their speed is way too good for the cost. They do something no other machine really can do, they speed up GT machines. That's a really good and really useful feature.

I'm not balancing them for time played, or aesthetics, but for what they bring to the game. An overpowered speed increase combined with an overpowered power decrease. I don't see any way that these fit in such early tiers. You should have to play a while to get them. If people don't get to some, then they don't get to some. It should take that long to get this kind of stuff, it's a long modpack, it's a long game, I really fail to see the problem with putting them farther into the game. I played for about 2 months and I'm close to being able to make most of the multis already (EV, T1 rocket). They're really early for what they do, no one needs the bonuses they give. They should take a while to get, they're busted

[Dream-Master]

@0lafe @Highbeam @Ghengis88 @Teirdalin did @draknyte1 allready know about this recipe wishes?

[Ghengis88]

he saw the last post atleast @Dream-Master

[Dream-Master]

ok

[draknyte1]

@0lafe they're not moving beyond the tiers I've already specified, so give up with your UV shit.

[0lafe]

@0lafe they're not moving beyond the tiers I've already specified, so give up with your UV shit.

So there's 3 in UV, does that mean that the rest are A OK and I can put the rest in ZPM? Also, I can maybe get the assembler at ZPM, I mean I never even made a UV assembler because it was kinda shit. But the ebf is pretty OP, especially at ZPM doing half time neutronium/naq alloy. No UV+ ebf recipes though which is why I thought UV was better for it. Vac freezer I put with it just because they're similar but I guess it could go a little earlier to zpm with the assembler

@draknyte1

[Scottishprog]

Olafe,

I see your point....

But at what point does "proper" tiering conflict with playability? Even for a group as dedicated as this one?
To touch on a point that @Highbeam stated, you are at some point semi-finalizing the base design. So the machines need to be available at some point, so they can be slotted into the design! (There is no CAD package to act as a planning substitute...)

I think it comes down to a value judgement. And I am on the side that the availability is needed about where it is. Just so things don't bog down. (Note I didn't say that the price needed to stay the same...)

Unfortunately, that doesn't deal with the issue of not so good tiering at the higher levels...

To put it another way, I believe if the Multiblocks were tiered up, the recipes they used would need to be looked at as to not spike the demand for power too much....

Also, I have been playing my current world for rather more than two months, and still at LV. I would hesitate to _not_ include the experiences of the slower players in balancing. A tier that is never reached....

[0lafe]

If you're in LV for 2 months then that's your choice/you don't play much/you're doing something really really wrong lol. I think it should be balanced around rushing through the game, and going for the most efficient options. I'm doing the same as you, I'm not sure when I'll see the end of EV, and I've been spending like 2 weeks making a golem farm for golems. It's been fun, but I'm not sitting here complaining that I can't get past EV because I know I can, I know what I'd need to do, I'm just not doing it yet (that kinda sounded like I meant it towards you, totally didn't mean that, just my opinion).

I think it comes down to a value judgement. And I am on the side that the availability is needed about where it is. Just so things don't bog down. (Note I didn't say that the price needed to stay the same...)

My biggest reason for this is that I've gone through the tiers. All the way to UMV without a GT++ multi because there aren't needed (oh and they totally weren't working until the version after I lost my world). I feel confident saying that you really don't need them ever. I never made a PA until LuV and only used them for ore processing. I had 1-16 HV of most of the crafting ones, and that speed was what I used until I finished an MK3 fusion setup making about 4M EU/t and felt like I should spend some more power. If I used an underpowered setup and had no issues, I think the progression is fine without gt++. Considering I could have upgraded most of my processing much earlier, just didn't because the speed wasn't needed.

The only stuff that's really changed is the moving of IV solars to LuV (kinda rolled back to IV though considering the GT++ assembler multi works now), oil is different, and circuits. Unless circuits alone take like 16x faster processing than anything else put together, then I really don't see what people need all this speed for. Other than the assembly line there's not much that takes materials in an impactful way until fusion, which is 4 things across 4 tiers. The same amount of tiers that take you from basic electricity to Mars and nukes.

Also, I have been playing my current world for rather more than two months, and still at LV. I would hesitate to not include the experiences of the slower players in balancing. A tier that is never reached....

So kinda, but I feel like the most useful insight usually comes from people affected by whatever the issue is. People with personal experience I guess I mean. If you're still in LV I don't think the problem is GT++ multis.

[mitchej123]

If you're in LV for 2 months then that's your choice/you don't play much/you're doing something really really wrong lol
I think it should be balanced around rushing through the game, and going for the most efficient options.

I think it should be balanced somewhere in the middle... not for either extreme

[0lafe]

I guess I kinda phrased it wrong. I think that it should always be preventative in letting people rush all the way through everything. However it shouldn't be required. However I think current IV+ is pretty lax in the requirements of infrastructure. If you get 4x power per tier kinda, I feel like you should be more required to use it.

[Scottishprog]

@0lafe

To be fair... I am very late LV, and I have not been putting in max time.

But that's my point... not everyone is moves up the tiers quickly.

[Highbeam]

0lafe I understand that you've played the pack fully. What I still cannot agree on is this 'gt++ aren't necessary' attitude. The pack is always changing and so is the playthrough. At the end of the day, if the multi's weren't there - I would have a hundred machines sat somewhere processing all the different stuff that I currently use the multis for. They shave off time, server resources, space in base and look a lot more interesting than having rows of single blocks or PA's...

Even after I have them, my progress hasn't suddenly become rapid! But the things I do have been less tedious, waiting around for stuff to craft for hours or using a hundred machines to craft the same thing. I still strongly agree making the recipes more expensive for the multiblocks but I say yet again, review the recipes that are the problem... If you revise the problematic recipes in ZPM+ (the recipes in the assembler etc) and update them to require some tier dependant materials, they will be fixed. (e.g. in UV require T7 planet materials?).

Alternate solution - make energy hatches at ZPM+ harder to craft (whatever is hardest thing to achieve by the end of the tier; Fusion elements etc)

[DoomSquirter]

I can't state how perfect highbeam's statement is. it hits the nail square on the head. with gt++ you consolidate and not advance. it doesn't give you an advantage, moreso it gives you some consolidation of existing tools/processes w/o any advantage that one might consider bypassing other things (aka OP).

[Highbeam]

Ok here is how I see this whole picture right now and the issues you are trying to address alongwith my suggestions:

Subject 1) GT++ multiblocks are fast.
Firstly, I don't see this as a problem WHATSOEVER. So what if they are fast? It's a multiblock that performs an operation to replace many single blocks. It is a powerful piece of machinery I agree and that brings us to Subject 2 and 3 and beyond...

Conclusion: Faster is good, I vote we leave the speed alone.

Subject 2) GT++ are easy to make.
As one of the main issues here I believe it is the cost of the multiblocks that we are all in agreement is a little cheap. I believe the recipes can be revised and some of the suggestions you have put forward look acceptable (the structure of the recipe that is, not the tiers depicted).

Conclusion: The multiblock structure recipes can definitely be made harder.

Subject 3) GT++ tiers ???
I don't see a problem with the tiers if Subject 4 is considered.

Subject 4) GT++ high tier recipe problems?
[edit]Having looked through I can see a few recipes that are affected by the energy hatch - Redox for GT++ is 1 example I know of. So my conclusion and suggestion below:

Conclusion: Energy Hatch update suggestion - quite a simple fix actually:

So I have a suggestion that may fix the recipe suggestions and it may also bring GTNH back to its roots a little:

I suggest a complete review of the ZPM+ Energy Hatches (and maybe others). Recently, the ZPM+ Machine Casings were updated to require polybenzimidazole so this has already created a complicated IV gated fluid on these casings. Though using a dual EV energy hatch LCR, it is possible to make this fluid at EV.

Part 1) Energy Hatch recipe update
If the Energy Hatch recipes were updated to include a material relevant to the tiers, it will prevent anyone creating high tier energy hatches and transforming their power just to complete high tier recipes. (E.g. this stops players easily making a UV energy hatch just to do UV recipes in assembler like the Sub-Station redox recipe).

Examples (revised - suggested Superconductor for LuV+):

• LuV Energy Hatch requires LuV Superconducting Wire (8x wire from 1 LuV Pump in Assembly Line needs IV energy so this appropriately gates the LuV Energy Hatch at IV)
• ZPM Energy Hatch requires ZPM Superconducting Wire
• UV Energy Hatch requires ??? (no UV Superconducting Wire currently in pack, only UHV after ZPM - maybe a request to add Superconducting for higher tiers?)
• etc.
  _This could be applied to every Energy Hatch of every tier for consistency. Earlier tiers can use the pump as superconductor is hard to make_

This will appropriately gate any multiblock no matter what type so that you are at the correct tier before you can benefit from it. The players who are at this tier will be able to craft the robot arms already.

Part 2) GT++ Multiblock structure ONLY allows 1 Energy Hatch
To prevent anyone using multiple Energy Hatches to process higher tier recipes, update GT++ multiblocks so that it only allows 1 energy hatch in the structure if it hasn't already.

Other multiblocks like EBF/Vacuum Freezer can still allow multiple energy hatches, so as I mentioned, it brings GTNH back to its roots where players can put 2x LuV energy hatches on their EBF to achieve ZPM recipes still.

[Ghengis88]

I think that Highbeam's Idea about the Uber hatch is even better then what Bryfer and I came up with, it would solve all the things i finde problematic with the GT++ Multiblocks

[Highbeam]

Ok just edited it again:

In a nutshell:

LuV+ = Energy Hatch requires same tier superconductor when crafting.
LuV Energy Hatch = LuV Superconducting Wire, LuV Machine Casing
ZPM Energy Hatch = ZPM Superconducting Wire, ZPM Machine Casing
UV Energy Hatch = ???, UV Machine Casing (next Superconducting Wire = UHV)

Optional: pre LuV Energy Hatch requires same tier Pump.
HV Energy Hatch = HV Pump, HV Machine Casing
EV Energy Hatch = EV Pump, EV Machine Casing
IV Energy Hatch = IV Pump, IV Machine Casing

Update GT++ Multiblocks structure ONLY allows 1 energy hatch to prevent running higher tiers.

This is about the simplest way to appropriately gate multiblocks and this will also count for existing multiblocks (LCR for example). If you look hard enough you'll find examples of recipes that you can complete before your tier like polybenzidimidazole (IV) while in HV.

[richardhendricks]

I like this idea. I think the pumps shouldn't be required until HV, and along with the pump we should include the appropriate large cell for that tier filled with ic2 coolant.

[0lafe]

I can't state how perfect highbeam's statement is. it hits the nail square on the head. with gt++ you consolidate and not advance. it doesn't give you an advantage, moreso it gives you some consolidation of existing tools/processes w/o any advantage that one might consider bypassing other things (aka OP).

No, that's a processing array. The GT++ multis give speed bonuses and EU discounts. They also have things like what you mean, like how they don't void outputs/don't need to be in the cleanroom. You're mostly right that they don't bypass stuff (some problems, like I think T8 in ZPM, IV solars in IV again as well as all solars past IV, and possibly more idk never really looked)

Subject 1) GT++ multiblocks are fast.
Firstly, I don't see this as a problem WHATSOEVER. So what if they are fast? It's a multiblock that performs an operation to replace many single blocks. It is a powerful piece of machinery I agree and that brings us to Subject 2 and 3 and beyond...
Conclusion: Faster is good, I vote we leave the speed alone.

Yes, that's the problem, speed is good. Keeping the speed is fine, but the benefits from it are way too good for the tiers they're in. Which is the reason for the retiring of them. 2-6x faster tier recipes is sort of a huge help. That's not something for EV/IV imo. Ore processing early I'm on board with, it's annoying and one of the first auto processes you set up after oil (which itself got multiblocks to make it better the tier before). I do not agree in any way that EV/IV should get faster machines for stuff like bending/extruding. Nothing requires anything in any amount that 2-4HV machines can keep you going for many tiers, to a point that even that is a problem on it's own.

This will appropriately gate any multiblock no matter what type so that you are at the correct tier before you can benefit from it. The players who are at this tier will be able to craft the robot arms already.

Yes, a spearate issue, but something I agree on. It gates recipes that can be done, which is one of the issues with these multis, however not the only/biggest. It doesn't help in gating their abilities which is much more what this ticket is meant to be focused on.

If you look hard enough you'll find examples of recipes that you can complete before your tier like polybenzidimidazole (IV) while in HV.

PBl is a separate issue, and really needs a recipe change if it's gonna be used. Don't like that it's required for anything now considering it's current recipe.

This is about the simplest way to appropriately gate multiblocks and this will also count for existing multiblocks

Wrong gate.... The recipes it can do is a whole separate issue, the problem I'm trying to address is their extremely fast speeds in tiers that don't even need speeds faster than the GT single blocks.

0lafe I understand that you've played the pack fully. What I still cannot agree on is this 'gt++ aren't necessary' attitude. The pack is always changing and so is the playthrough. At the end of the day, if the multi's weren't there - I would have a hundred machines sat somewhere processing all the different stuff that I currently use the multis for.

Except you wouldn't make that many, as you'll find you don't need the speed. Anyway that just demonstrates the issue more. A single multi replaces that many single blocks, while being EV/IV. Not to mention the multi will always be better because of the eu discount and the speed bonus.

Until I get a sense of what needs this much speed, everything I've played through leads me to believe a set of a couple HV/EV machines will carry you to UV. I made the recipes without the multis and never felt like I was limited by my processing. If anything my thought was always, "how can this little take me this far".

[DoomSquirter]

I really don't get the hangup on speed. I really don't. it's not like a single box that gives you 12x ore multiplication or reduces power usage by 50% or whatever. I don't think we need an accountant to go in and itemize every side of this gt++ multiblock argument and ensure it's perfectly balanced as long as the player isn't getting some form of advantage from it.

[0lafe]

I really don't get the hangup on speed. I really don't. it's not like a single box that gives you 12x ore multiplication or reduces power usage by 50% or whatever. I don't think we need an accountant to go in and itemize every side of this gt++ multiblock argument and ensure it's perfectly balanced as long as the player isn't getting some form of advantage from it.

It doesn't really matter if it's a single or a multi, I don't think speed like that should be available in those tiers. It's a pretty decent advantage I'm not sure what you mean, it's faster items processed and less EU used. Kind of the only 2 things that a machine does. Takes a time and a power, and these take noticable less of both, which is an impactful advantage imo. If speed doesn't matter that much I'd suggest removing the speed/EU bonuses and increasing the processes/tier to 4. With the current speed/EU discount, I don't see them fitting into EV/IV.

[Teirdalin]

Wait- it reduces energy cost to less than what the processing of the item would normally take? Mayhaps just a power cost increase to be on-par with normal processing costs would be a better alternative then; if it ignores the actual item power cost or goes by a significant percentage; that sounds like it could be rather broken OP on things such as infinity combs and the like.

[0lafe]

If you can get alk to agree that's ideal, but I've been barking up that tree since 2.0.3. It's a %speed increase. Centrifuge has 2.25x speed bonus + 90% EU consumed. So infinity comb processing would take 2.25x less time and use 90% the EU that even that would take. Yes it's OP lol. Specifically put the centrifuge past other ore processing because of the bee bonus with it.

[Teirdalin]

Maybe the machines could have an upgraded controller form which gives the power discount and a normal form which is full eu cost per process with just the speed boost since- entire point of a multi to begin with aside from customization.
While later game you'd be doing whole stacks of processing with arrays rather than singles anymore; so an upgraded form which gives a discount could be useful for making GT++ multis good later game while still having them be nice mid game. Although if it's only 2.25x speed over a single block, that's not necessarily that exciting of a machine really; maybe if it could have its speed upgraded with perhaps height or even a new processing casing or something which increase amp cost to keep it running but gives an additional 1x or 1.15x speed increase increment; that'd be pretty cool.

[Scottishprog]

That's a possibility....

Full speed gain now, and put in higher level single block (+1 tier) to get the power discount.

I agree with that approach.

[0lafe]

Maybe the machines could have an upgraded controller form which gives the power discount and a normal form which is full eu cost per process with just the speed boost since- entire point of a multi to begin with aside from customization.
While later game you'd be doing whole stacks of processing with arrays rather than singles anymore; so an upgraded form which gives a discount could be useful for making GT++ multis good later game while still having them be nice mid game. Although if it's only 2.25x speed over a single block, that's not necessarily that exciting of a machine really; maybe if it could have its speed upgraded with perhaps height or even a new processing casing or something which increase amp cost to keep it running but gives an additional 1x or 1.15x speed increase increment; that'd be pretty cool.

I like where you're going with amps. Something where the hatch could draw multiple amps and for each one it would add a 100% speed bonus. So like 4A and it goes 4x faster + parallel stuff if necessary. I love the idea, but now that I think about it, it sounds more OP than the current stuff and I'd rather see it even later tiered which I don't think would go well.

Problem is alk. He won't really do much in the way of "change mechanics for gtnh". If you can convince him great, but I've only seen him oppose it.

Now uh, I don't her why you mind the 90% EU part more than the 2.25x part. 2.25x speed means 2.25x less EU, which is a lot more than 90%. Im a little concerned about the larger ones (60-50%) and if they let more overclocks happen because 40000eu/t would be solid LuV instead of zpm. Stuff like that could be an issue too, but I haven't looked at it enough to know if/how it'll inpact anything.

Full speed gain now, and put in higher level single block (+1 tier) to get the power discount

I'd rather see it the other way around as the speed is clearly the more OP of the two. It's an EU discount usually more than the % discount, and runs faster

[draknyte1]

Problem is alk. He won't really do much in the way of "change mechanics for gtnh". If you can convince him great, but I've only seen him oppose it.

I’m not adding new mechanics or new blocks. With good reasons for each... by now I’ve elaborated on this enough times for you to realise it won’t ever happen. What do you expect for free?

[0lafe]

I'm not complaining about it, just saying we need to stick to stuff like recipe changes

[mitchej123]

So infinity comb processing would take 2.25x less time and use 90% the EU that even that would take. Yes it's OP lol. Specifically put the centrifuge past other ore processing because of the bee bonus with it.

Uh, saying it's OP because of late game mats, and should be nerfed for everyone/early game, is a bit silly.

[Teirdalin]

So infinity comb processing would take 2.25x less time and use 90% the EU that even that would take. Yes it's OP lol. Specifically put the centrifuge past other ore processing because of the bee bonus with it.

Uh, saying it's OP because of late game mats, and should be nerfed for everyone/early game, is a bit silly.

That's true; I suppose it's minor enough not to really be an issue really. Multiple tiers for it would be cool though.

[DoomSquirter]

y'all just need hugs. that's all. lots of hugs. maybe some puppies or baby beavers but hugs first, cuz someone hurt you at some point and I feel sorry for ya.... 😢

[Dream-Master]

@draknyte1 are you accepting pulls when we need to change some machine recipes? adding them with Minetweaker is not the best way. GTNH need sometimes different balancing then the rest of Vanilla GT.