Core-js: Get rid of postinstall message

[jpike88]

My installation log isn't for advertising space. If you want donations, please do the right thing and promote yourself in places where appropriate. My logs are long enough as it is without this.

The right thing to do is to remove it.

EDIT: An unmaintained fork is available: core-js-without-ads

[nicolo-ribaudo]

You can hide it using the --loglevel silent (or warn, or error) npm option:

npm i --loglevel silent

Package authors have the right to ask users to support their projects. If people are going to be angry about it, they can choose to use a commercial product which doesn't have to ask for funds, instead of a free one.

[jpike88]

It's called donationware and it sets a bad precedent. Loglevel flags shouldn't be the solution to this, it's a misuse of their purpose.

I hope you see where I'm coming from. Please keep it where it belongs, otherwise a high profile package like this will start a trend that nobody wants.

[TomLingham]

@jpike88 it's free software. Once you start paying for it, maybe then you can dictate what is logged during installation. Otherwise, fork it and alias the dependency in your project if you feel so passionately about it.

[jpike88]

Nobody is dictating anything. It's called encouraging good practices, and instead of being so defensive you can consider what I'm saying on its merits. Or you don't have to, it's open source right ;) everyone's free to say what they want

[TomLingham]

I'm not being defensive. Merely encouraging good social practices (to use your own words). It's not unusual for these post install messages to be in packages installed through npm so saying that you are encouraging "good practices" is not founded in anything substantial.

[jpike88]

https://github.com/cssinjs/jss/issues/881
https://github.com/remy/nodemon/issues/1189
https://github.com/styled-components/styled-components/issues/1590
https://github.com/pouchdb/pouchdb/issues/7392

This discussion has played itself out in a few other repos, the trend is almost always the reconsidering of whether it's even an effective marketing tactic, and whether it's fair to the developers who utilise it. The move is then reversed. It is a highly unusual thing to do, and the blowback tends to be strong. Otherwise we'd be seeing every 10th or 20th package doing it (thank god we don't).

If you're not sure what I mean by 'good practices', you can read those links.

[TomLingham]

I appreciate you digging those up, but there are actually a lot of packages that do it

It's up to the maintainer - if it doesn't benefit them like you say, then I'm sure they'll change it in time. Just be glad they aren't mining crypto during the install 😂

[jpike88]

A miner would definitely make this complaint look small... lol

[jackturnbull]

My preference would be to keep the post-install messages clean; I see them as a good place to advertise recent breaking changes and knowing the size of most node_modules folders, if everyone starts doing it then we're in for a rough ride. But with that being said I respect that it's @zloirock's right to use it to ask for a little help. Hell, I'm using hundreds if not thousands of contributors' time so I think I'll survive.

I don't think I'll be the only one here but @jpike88 you've made it really difficult to thumbs up this post with the tone of the message. Nearly every sentence is self-absorbed, outright hostile, or reads as command.

[zloirock]

Dear @jpike88!

Almost 5 years almost every day I spend some hour for maintenance core-js. It's not a library from some lines which I can write and forget about it - it should react on any change in JavaScript standard or proposals, on any new JS engine release, on any significant bug in JS engines. core-js has become the de facto standard of JavaScript standard library features polyfill.

I was working on the project in my spare time. No one paid me for it, more other - I didn't use it actively in my work, I worked on it since I thought that it was required for JavaScript community. No one of browser vendors, TC39, big companies which use core-js helped me. Users started actively contribute to this project only some months ago.

Some previous months I worked almost fulltime on core-js@3 and polyfilling-related Babel features instead of making money as I thought it was important for JavaScript community and planned to find a new fulltime work after release.

2 months ago I started raising funds to core-js maintenance. Current result - 7$ / month on Patreon, 50$ / month on Open Collective. Not seriously, but better than nothing - users use Babel or their frameworks for polyfilling and just don't know that they use core-js indirectly. Not a problem since anyway I didn't think about open source as about a way to earn any serious money.

However, shit happens. Because of one accident, now I have some serious problems for tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars and a real chance to be in prison - doubtful pleasure - interesting, who will maintain core-js in this case? Since previous months I worked on open source, I have not any financial pillow for solving those problems.

After a little discussion, I understood that I can't count to any help from Babel. Nothing to say.

So why not to make this little experiment? I think that some lines in NPM installation log, which can be hidden if it's required, are an acceptable price for using core-js. I don’t think that I’ll be able to get a however significant part of required at this moment money, however, each dollar makes sense. And some more people will know that I am ready to consider job offers.

And after that, someone says that I'm not right because I added a message on postinstall... The right thing for you is somehow supporting core-js instead of creating issues like this.

Initially, I wanted to add a message on postinstall as an experiment for some days, but because of your reaction I see that adding a message on postinstall was the right thing, so I leave it here. Thank you for this issue.

Let this issue be opened a little more time.

[papandreou]

This is rage-inducing. What if everybody did that?

[Anaphase]

I don't mind donation messages at all, but this little message at the end really bugs me:

Also, the author of core-js (https://github.com/zloirock) is looking for a good job -)

Is _that_ really necessary?

[TomLingham]

@papandreou @Anaphase I was going to tap out of this conversation because I'd already made my point, however your entitlement is deafening. "It really bugs me", or "This is rage-inducing" are the faulty reasonings of individuals who are unable to muster even one modicum of empathy.

It sent a few extra lines through your stdout - if that is what keeps you up at night, then you've clearly lost all perspective.

[papandreou]

Whereas ad hominem attacks are signs of...?

[TomLingham]

Ok, so maybe that wasn't entirely called for - but the author has already explained themselves. Your feelings don't matter, neither do mine. Why continue to beat a dead horse? 🤔

[jpike88]

LOL... I predicted there would be blowback.

@jackturnbull not my intention to offend, and the way I talk may be nicer than the way I type. Not my intention to 'command' or insult anyone.

And @zloirock holy crap I don't even know what to say there... good luck I guess. This library is used by the angular cli and pretty much all of the angular community, I think you're going to continue to find more attention over time.

[IdanAdar]

With respect, it's fine to advertise... but WHY SO MUCH?
Once, twice... three times, but this? Disgusting.

> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-core/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

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Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-generator/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

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Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-bindify-decorators/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

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Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-builder-binary-assignment-operator-visitor/node_modules/core-js
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Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-call-delegate/node_modules/core-js
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Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-define-map/node_modules/core-js
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Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-explode-assignable-expression/node_modules/core-js
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-explode-class/node_modules/core-js
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-function-name/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

(node:517) MaxListenersExceededWarning: Possible EventEmitter memory leak detected. 11 SIGINT listeners added. Use emitter.setMaxListeners() to increase limit
Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-get-function-arity/node_modules/core-js
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-hoist-variables/node_modules/core-js
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Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-optimise-call-expression/node_modules/core-js
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-regex/node_modules/core-js
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Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-remap-async-to-generator/node_modules/core-js
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helper-replace-supers/node_modules/core-js
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-helpers/node_modules/core-js
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Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-messages/node_modules/core-js
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Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-check-es2015-constants/node_modules/core-js
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Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-async-generator-functions/node_modules/core-js
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Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-async-to-generator/node_modules/core-js
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Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-class-constructor-call/node_modules/core-js
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-class-properties/node_modules/core-js
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-decorators/node_modules/core-js
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Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-arrow-functions/node_modules/core-js
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Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-classes/node_modules/core-js
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-computed-properties/node_modules/core-js
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-function-name/node_modules/core-js
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-modules-systemjs/node_modules/core-js
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Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-modules-umd/node_modules/core-js
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Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-object-super/node_modules/core-js
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Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-parameters/node_modules/core-js
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Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
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> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-shorthand-properties/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-spread/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-sticky-regex/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-template-literals/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-typeof-symbol/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-es2015-unicode-regex/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-exponentiation-operator/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-export-extensions/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-object-rest-spread/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-regenerator/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-plugin-transform-strict-mode/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-register/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-template/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-traverse/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/babel-types/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/core-js
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)


> [email protected] postinstall /home/jenkins/workspace/Dashboard_PR-851/node_modules/core-js-pure
> node scripts/postinstall

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: 
> https://opencollective.com/core-js 
> https://www.patreon.com/zloirock 

Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[TomLingham]

@IadnAdar that is pretty verbose. I think that comes from many different packages depending on core-js. It's interesting to see just how many packages depend on it. Perhaps if you can suggest a way of limiting it to logging just once? 🤔

[IdanAdar]

Whomever added it to "make cash" / "advertise self", that is the person who should take a good look at him/herself and suggest a fix.

... Just show it _once_ at the top before whatever process is happening takes place.

[TomLingham]

Sometimes people need to make money off things they normally do for free just for the love of it. It's just the way it is - maybe if more people would donate, then it might not be needed?

Post install is run after installing for every dependant package. Because it is so important in the ecosystem, that is why you are seeing the message so much. The author has already explained themselves in this issue. Have you read through the comments here already? I suggested forking and aliasing the package further up in this thread, perhaps give that a shot if it's causing you too much trouble right now.

[IdanAdar]

Yes, I read the thread and the reasoning is very thin...

Annoying users as a tool get donations only serves for the opposite. Psychology 101.
Right now I am so aggravated I'm not even going to consider what this was "supposed to achieve".

There is a way to get something, and this is done poorly and in bad taste. Good luck.

[Anaphase]

Whoooo boy this is getting heated! I just wanted to chime in again and say that there's nothing really wrong with asking for donations, this is free software and we shouldn't be bitching about it. If the verbose logs really bug you, just silence them like @nicolo-ribaudo said with npm install --loglevel warn. You can put this in your .npmrc so it runs every time, because honestly do you really need the output of an npm install aside from warnings & errors?

That being said, I still think it's in poor taste to have the last line asking to get hired. @zloirock should have that on his opencollective / patreon / github pages for interested parties, but it's wholly inappropriate to include in a postinstall message.

Anyway, I've now become a Patron of @zloirock on Patreon, thanks for all your hard work 👍

[kopax]

I am not a fan of postinstall advertisment but after reading your story, I just want to say I hope you will get through, and thanks for the big work. People should not blame too much others when it's about free and more over good work.

[ibnuda]

let me jump into the bandwagon.

zloirock, let's say that money (or opportunity) solves issues. so, at what price will you remove those lines? and jpike88 and friends should try to haggle that price down from their perceived value until equilibrium reached and then followed by paying zloirock that same amount of money (or opportunity).

win win? fair? you decide!

[Anaphase]

@ibnuda don't forget, someone has to give him a job too! 😂

[lazarljubenovic]

Everyone is saying how it is free and that's why the author can do whatever he wants. And yet so many people are browsing ad-powered websites for free, but use AdBlock to hide them.

Whether it annoys you or not, why deny the simple truth that postinstall message (which is usually one among hundreds) is not a place to post donation banners? Postinstall message is a place to inform me about the package being deprecated or if it has a security issue. It's a developer's log, full with information about installation, not a blog post.

People who are willing to give money to support a project are going to search for the project name and see the donation button/banner on the website/readme long before they even think about donating. Or do you expect people to use their credit cards through command line?

[nathanjd]

I'm a bit confused as to what I would be supporting with these donations. In another thread, you cited

It was related to my current burnout and problems

@rjgotten now I lost any motivation to work on it or another babel features. So no concrete timeline.

as the reason for this.

https://github.com/zloirock/core-js/issues/496

I have two main questions which are sadly personal in nature but seem relevant.

1. Why would you choose to quit your job to start working full time on something you have burnt out on and seem increasingly annoyed by?
2. Would my donations be going towards legal fees for some harm that you have caused? I understand that an accident can cause unemployment and high medical bills itself but from your wording, you seem to be at fault.

Because of one accident, now I have some serious problems for tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars and a real chance to be in prison - doubtful pleasure - interesting, who will maintain core-js in this case?

If you are in prison, who will maintain it then?

[zloirock]

@nathanjd

1. Because at that moment I didn't think that Babel would betray me? I worked on polyfilling stuff for Babel almost from the start of the project, but when I asked about any help and it was really required - I received a refusal.

2. Seems so, thanks to our stupid law.

If you are in prison, who will maintain it then?

See above - I haven't any options.

[tfavorite]

What is exit code -2? Installing babel and anything else that depends on this seems to fail in certain cases (not sure which, been spending the past day trying to find that out) running this postinstall script. Putting the install on quiet mode doesn't help either. I'm downgrading to version 2.6.4 until I figure this out....

1253 silly lifecycle [email protected]~postinstall: Args: [ '-c',
1253 silly lifecycle   'node -e "try { require(\'./scripts/postinstall\'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"' ]
1254 info lifecycle [email protected]~postinstall: Failed to exec postinstall script
1255 silly lifecycle [email protected]~postinstall: Returned: code: -2  signal: null
1256 info lifecycle [email protected]~postinstall: Failed to exec postinstall script

Best of luck with your current troubles.

[silverwind]

It seems this postinstall script causes my Docker builds on Alpine Linux to get stuck while cross-compiling a application for ARMv6 (works on x64 though):

````
$ docker run --rm -it arm32v6/node:alpine sh
/ # mkdir test && cd test && npm i core-js

[email protected] postinstall /test/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"
````

It hangs forever with one CPU core at 100% usage.

[OfficerHalf]

Perhaps it would be good to follow opencollective-postinstall and allow for a specific env variable to suppress the message? https://github.com/opencollective/opencollective-postinstall#disabling-this-message

[zloirock]

@OfficerHalf since it's not Open Collective only, I don't think that DISABLE_OPENCOLLECTIVE env variable makes sense. But this script already suppressed this message with CI variable or with the changed log level.

Ok, personally for you, I'll add support of ADBLOCK env variable -)

[zloirock]

@tfavorite @silverwind I think that it not a place for those issues, they should be moved to separate threads. Also, please, provide more info or reproducible examples.

@tfavorite theoretically, here can help just adding || true to postinstall command, however, for some reason I avoided it. Maybe makes sense to add it.

@silverwind now I haven't any ARMv6 test env. Feel free to propose a fix for it.

[tfavorite]

Thanks for your quick reply @zloirock - if I can figure out the exact scenario that leads to it (and it's not some user error) I'll report a separate issue with more detail.

[IdanAdar]

Here, use this: https://github.com/sponsors and please keep our build logs clean.

[nathanjd]

@zloirock,

I'm sorry to hear that, though you avoided answering my second question.

Thank you for adding the ADBLOCK environment variable and for your significant contributions to the community to date.

[timoxley]

IMO if you are benefitting from @zloirock's work for free, he can put whatever the shit he wants in your install logs, stop acting so entitled.

[jalovatt]

@timoxley If the message could be scoped to the people directly using it, that would make sense. I see them because Babel and Storybook use it - should I also have to see nag screens if any of their devs are using the free version of Sublime 3?

All the best to the author, but there are better ways to go about this. Why not set up a GoFundMe and try to get word-of-mouth going on Twitter or something?

[nicolo-ribaudo]

Babel is not using core-js internally. It's exposing it to its users.

[jalovatt]

Then perhaps Babel should compensate the author for bundling his work under their name, given a) how popular Babel is, and b) the fact that they're using an external library for doing The Thing Babel Is Known For Doing.

[rjgotten]

@jalovatt
Then perhaps Babel should compensate the author

Straight to the heart of the matter. Sadly the short of it is: they don't seem to want to.
As was written by the author before:

@zloirock
After a little discussion, I understood that I can't count to any help from Babel. Nothing to say.

[jpike88]

@jalovatt this project is open sourced under the MIT license, Babel nor any other party is obligated to compensate or give back to the maintainers of this project in any way, nor should they be expected to. If you provide something for free with no strings attached, you shouldn't expect anything from those to make use of it, no matter who they are.

Inconvenient? Cold? Maybe. But that's how it works.

[kopax]

Jesus, @jpike88 I don't think this was about obligation but I believe they talk about empathy. Open source is also a visit card, if babel is an organization that hire software enginners, why can't @zloirock be hired if he's free and qualified.

[rjgotten]

@kopax
I don't think this was about obligation but I believe they talk about empathy.

That, really.

Let's face fact here: the adoption rate of Babel would _plummet_ if it would only transpile language features and would not polyfill the base library -- which is really, really freakin' hard to do correctly and which would've taken Babel's direct contributors and development team a lot of effort if they'd have to have done all of it themselves.

@zloirock deserves some recognition from Babel for saving them that work.

Just because they don't _have to_ do anything here contractually; doesn't mean they _cannot_ do so.
It's their _choice_ not to do anything here. And that choice paints them as one of those evil old IT overlord corporations that open source as a philosophy was so against. Which is somewhat ironic; because they're only able to make this choice because of the openness of open-source te begin with.

[jpike88]

Of course @zloirock deserves recognition for such a great library, nobody is against that as an idea here. But it's important to recognise the reality of the situation. He has a pretty solid CV from leading this project alone, how many people can say that Angular/Babel uses their library? That puts him way ahead of the vast majority of candidates out there. If he's not getting much success, maybe his strategies need adjusting, or the job market sucks (that one I doubt). He could waltz into an IT exhibition and land a few interviews without even trying.

But I don't know why Babel deserves any negative reception here, they are already flush with capable devs, and while they have a decent list of sponsors, their patreon is only getting about $3000 USD. That's not much at all, they might be pretty tight themselves.

[jalovatt]

@jpike88 But I don't know why Babel deserves any negative reception here, they are already flush with capable devs, and while they have a decent list of sponsors, their patreon is only getting about $3000 USD. That's not much at all, they might be pretty tight themselves.

I don't think "negative reception" is the right idea. "Peer pressure", maybe? They're using core-js. Babel users are using Babel, which exposes core-js to save themselves a lot of work - no problem there, that's what open source is for, but if Babel, Storybook, Angular, and whoever else are doing well for themselves while the author of one of their major dependencies is struggling, IMO that's a problem that (morally) they should be helping to fix.

That doesn't necessarily mean "give the author money", since as you say they may not be flush with cash themselves, but they're in a much better position to pass the hat for him, or try to help him find employment.

[runspired]

Log pollution is a problem, especially for newer developers that have no idea what they are reading when things go wrong. Let's not make that problem worse. If even 1% of commonly used libraries did this project installs would have completely unusable logs.

Imagine the pain seen by @IdanAdar but several orders of magnitude worse as the status-quo. This is not the usability story we wish for the language, for the web, or for any dev team of any experience level.

Just one repository abusing the postinstall hook in this manner is too many.

The suggestion made to silence all logs because a transient dependency has decided to take up a mile's worth of screen real estate during an install is equally abusive. No one library should be able to dictate an all-or-nothing log level.

I am very much for donations and support, but this is not the way to do it. This is the postinstall hook equivalent of attempting to use GPL to hold other libraries, products, and companies hostage.

[etoxin]

This is currently clogging up my logs and adding no value to my project.

[lazarljubenovic]

IMO if you are benefitting from @zloirock's work for free, he can put whatever the shit he wants in your install logs, stop acting so entitled.

Ouch. Looks like someone needs a refresher on the difference between CAN and SHOULD.

And why is _he_ entitled to put "whatever the shit he wants" in my install logs, but I'm not entitled to put "whatever the shit" complaints I want in his GitHub issues?

[inradius]

Also, this is causing our npm ci to fail right when it gets to this message.

[tapvt]

I don't mind the message at all, really.

It does seem to cause a non-zero exit code for some reason.

My Elastic Beanstalk + alpine:10 deployments broke completely, and there was no obvious error message.

--loglevel=error got me back up and running, but it took a while to track down the culprit.

[nukeop]

I'm selling a PS4 500GB, asking price $90, email me

also, looking for a job

[robstenbom]

I wont be discussing whether this practice should be supported or not, but if this is causing you issues, run:

npm config set loglevel warn

or edit your npm config file.

[rjgotten]

@robstenbom
Not a really suitable option; it will also hide legit info that developers maybe should see.

[inradius]

@tapvt My issue was related to this in combination with a postinstall script. Somehow, running npm ci with a postinstall script breaks somewhere between this message and moving on to the postinstall. At least in my case. Maybe that can help you too.

[jeffstokes72]

Instead of ads you could be looking at a digital goatse in your logs...

It's amazing how good people's lives are that this is the chief problem in life to rage over.

[jpike88]

I've forked and removed the postinstall, and have also published an ad-free version on npm:

npm install core-js-without-ads

This should give people an easy alternative, and stop people from continuing to spam this issue. Some will think I'm a bit of a douche for doing this, but someone's got to be that douche ;)... I'll remove it when there's no point for it to exist.

And no, I'm not going to maintain it. If you want proper support, stick with this repo.

[whitfin]

I'd like to make it clear that everyone in here telling people to change _their entire npm configuration_ to just remove this log message is being ridiculous. Would you change your browser settings to render a single web page correctly?

I personally don't use anything in core-js myself; it's transitive through dependencies on modules who are seemingly too lazy about splitting their development dependencies up properly. I see this message half a dozen times during a build though, which is fantastic considering _I don't use the module_.

In the interest of an actual solution, how about simply changing the postinstall script to write a file to /tmp to use as a flag of whether the message has been shown already or not? You still get the advertising and the spam is greatly reduced. Everyone should be happy!

[juliannovy]

Holly crap ppl, so many offensive comments, because of the CLI message? Are u f^&%g kidding me? If you can't support the creator of core-js - ignore the f^&%g message... simple as that?

@zloirock I hope you gonna solve your financial problems! And that was a super good idea to make it like that 👍

[igeligel]

@whitfin

I'd like to make it clear that everyone in here telling people to change their entire npm configuration to just remove this log message is being ridiculous. Would you change your browser settings to render a single web page correctly?

Are you running an ad blocker in the browser to make web pages do not show ads? It is the same thing here more or less.

@zloirock First of all thanks for the project - you are one person making the Open Source community what it is today - a great community of some hard working people caring about open software 👍Otherwise, I would recommend that you build a personal brand - like Twitter, blogging and so on. You would reach the people who actually are invested in this community and not just the "users" of your project. But yeah, that is up to you :) I think this is also a reason why babel gets so many donations because the leader of the project is creating content around it, writing blog posts and going to conferences - he just is reaching out to more community-driven people.

[jonaskuske]

This is currently clogging up my logs and adding no value to my project.

@etoxin Why are you using core-js if it doesn't add value? 😅

I'd like to make it clear that everyone in here telling people to change their entire npm configuration to just remove this log message is being ridiculous. Would you change your browser settings to render a single web page correctly?

@whitfin If you could do that, everyone would change their browser settings to disable ads. But unlike this package, websites do not have a clean "disable ads" switch you can toggle in the settings, so people are going further than that and actually running 3rd party code every time their browser does a network request, just to remove ads.
This package added a straight forward env variable that allows you to disable the ads easily, which is way more than your average website does for you – now what's "ridiculous" about that?!

[ConstantinChirila]

My installation log isn't your advertising space. If you want donations, do the right thing and promote yourself in places where it belongs. My logs are long enough as it is without this.

This is going to anger a lot of people out there. The right thing to do is to remove it.

EDIT: I've forked and published an ad-free version. npm install core-js-without-ads

Use something else! It a free package. Just get over yourself. Thanks!

[stlk]

@jpike88 dude. You're wrong on this one. The only thing I'm angry with right now is this issue. :)

[nukeop]

I'm starting a service to connect the maintainers of popular npm packages with advertisers.

If you'd like to get on board and monetize your package, contact me: [email protected] or on matrix.org (see username in my profile).

[jpike88]

Time to unsubscribe, this really blew up. Some parting comments...

To those disliking my posts, thinking I'm the bad guy, I'm going to guess that at least a few of you are using ad-blockers on your browsers. Probably more than a few, as you're probably all developers. That makes at least some of you hypocrites. I'd like to point that out.

I've already put forward my support for @zloirock and I'm confident he can get work without much issue, it's a great project. I'm not trying to ruin anyone's day. But part of participating in an open source community is deciding collectively on what unwritten rules everyone should follow, and what precedent those rules set. And from what I see above it's still a very controversial topic, hopefully it stays that way.

[userabuser]

@jpike88 this is the part where you plug your SoundCloud...

[lazarljubenovic]

Holly crap ppl, so many offensive comments, because of the CLI message? Are u f^&%g kidding me? If you can't support the creator of core-js - ignore the f^&%g message... simple as that?

@zloirock I hope you gonna solve your financial problems! And that was a super good idea to make it like that

Wow, this is the dictionary definition of hypocrisy. How about you ignore the complains on this page, then? Here:

Holly crap ppl, so many offensive comments, because of comments on issues? Are you kidding me? If you can't handle reading other people's opinions - ignore them... simple as that?

[ConstantinChirila]

Time to unsubscribe, this really blew up. Some parting comments...

To those disliking my posts, thinking I'm the bad guy, I'm going to guess that at least a few of you are using ad-blockers on your browsers. Probably more than a few, as you're probably all developers. That makes at least some of you hypocrites. I'd like to point that out.

I've already put forward my support for @zloirock and I'm confident he can get work without much issue, it's a great project. I'm not trying to ruin anyone's day. But part of participating in an open source community is deciding collectively on what unwritten rules everyone should follow, and what precedent those rules set. And from what I see above it's still a very controversial topic, hopefully it stays that way.

We are in no position to decide anything about someones project that puts his blood sweat and tears and gives it for free for the inconvenience of having a log in the console once in a while. It baffles me at the amount of entitlement you and some others have.
Let me give you a quick analogy. I need a space to work from, and you offer your living room for free, but then after you getting a cat that i start complaining that i don't like cats anbd it was very inconsiderate of you do do that. ITS YOUR LIVING ROOM, if i don't like it I can leave. This is opensource, if you don't like it you can stop using it or you can fork it and maintain/develop it yourself. You cannot have any sort of demands whatsoever.

Yes i use Adblock, and core-js have the option to "block" the ad, as pointed in one of the comments. What is your point? Are you emailing blog sites to stop using ads?

[Ichicoro]

damn @jpike88 what a fucking asshole...

[KyeRussell]

It’s very amusing to see all these angry little people internally battling with the fact that they are extremely dependent on software that they get for free, and taking it out on maintainers.

The ad blocker argument is ridiculous. Do you email free publications and demand that they remove their advertising?

Maybe someone grumpy enough could fork npm and add a post install message donation request blocker! Though I imagine that the people spending the time making GitHub issues like this don’t have ‘actually make software’ near the top of their list of priorities.

If I am to be honest, I personally find the message mildly annoying. So mildly that I’d never even consider telling anyone else, let alone make a GitHub issue about it!

Necessary infrastructural libraries like core-js not receiving the financial backing they need because they aren’t ‘user-facing’ is a systemic issue that needs real action. You can’t blame the package author for trying to put food on his table. If you don’t like it, stop sleeping on his couch for free.

“I don’t use the package” is similarly short-sighted. That’s the point...that you don’t think that you use it, when in reality you almost certainly do.

[2xAA]

ctrl + l. If that's not working try CLS.

[kossnocorp]

@jpike88 you probably don't realize how much harm you have done by just writing stuff like that. I won't be surprised if @zloirock stops working on the library after all that shit you and others got for him. Good luck with maintaining core-js-without-ads.

Instead of spending your employer money on shitposting you better go and talk to your manager about the issue and ask for open source budget.

This post-install message is just a symptom of a broader problem where people that directly benefit from open source (businesses that make money on software) don't know that they can help and the price that they might pay one day. The ones that well know about it (developers) instead of making sure that the business is aware of the problem criticize mercantile intentions of open source writers.

[jpike88]

This post is starting to attract some real class acts, but @ConstantinChirila I'll respond.

I need a space to work from, and you offer your living room for free, but then after you getting a cat that i start complaining that i don't like cats anbd it was very inconsiderate of you do do that. ITS YOUR LIVING ROOM, if i don't like it I can leave.

So to me this analogy is upside down. To me, a better example would be: I pass by a place that hands out free furniture, and set that furniture up in my living room. Everything is fine for a while, until one of the sofas say 'please donate to my maker' every time I walk through the door. Turns out it's not the entire sofa, it's just one of the cushions. It's my living room, everything I brought through that door I did with the understanding that it wouldn't start making noises about what I should be doing.

Now imagine every piece of furniture, the floors, the walls, doing that. You see why I'm so against it in principle, and why there are plenty of people who are agreeing with my stance? Sure, it's not the case now, but the importance of precedent seems to go over a lot of people's heads here.

So I do what I did. I leave negative feedback, which some of you are acting like is a demand, order, command etc etc... as if I'm somehow attacking or oppressing the person who was providing me the item... for free! I owe him nothing! Just like I'm free to fork the repo (_which I've done_), I'm also free to tell the owner what I think based on what principles I consider to be important. People here are also free (as long as @zloirock tolerates it) to call me an asshole, or take other shots at me. Just like if @zloirock is unable to financially sustain himself maintaining this library for free, he is also free to change the license and start charging for it! And of course, placing the message in the postinstall.

So our analogies and philosophies are practically opposites. We (and others) have strong feelings on it. And it will probably stay that way, which is why this post is turning into a flame war.

[Ichicoro]

@zloirock how about updating the license so that @jpike88 isn't allowed to use the library anymore, in any shape or form?

[kossnocorp]

Ironically, AdBlock that y'all mention is also supported by donations and periodically open this page: https://getadblock.com/pay.

[ConstantinChirila]

This post is starting to attract some real class acts, but @ConstantinChirila I'll respond.

I need a space to work from, and you offer your living room for free, but then after you getting a cat that i start complaining that i don't like cats anbd it was very inconsiderate of you do do that. ITS YOUR LIVING ROOM, if i don't like it I can leave.

So to me this analogy is upside down. To me, a better example would be: I pass by a place that hands out free furniture, and set that furniture up in my living room. Everything is fine for a while, until one of the sofas say 'please donate to my maker' every time I walk through the door. Turns out it's not the entire sofa, it's just one of the cushions. It's my living room, everything I brought through that door I did with the understanding that it wouldn't start making noises about what I should be doing.

Now imagine every piece of furniture, the floors, the walls, doing that. You see why I'm so against it in principle, and why there are plenty of people who are agreeing with my stance? Sure, it's not the case now, but the importance of precedent seems to go over a lot of people's heads here.

So I do what I did. I leave negative feedback, which some of you are acting like is a demand, order, command etc etc... as if I'm somehow attacking or oppressing the person who was providing me the item... for free! Just like I'm free to fork the repo (_which I've done_), I'm also free to tell the owner what I think based on what principles I consider to be important. People here are also free (as long as @zloirock tolerates it) to call me an asshole, or take other shots at me. Just like if @zloirock is unable to financially sustain himself maintaining this library, he is free to put the message in there in the first place!

So our analogies and philosophies are practically opposites. We (and others) have strong feelings on it. And it will probably stay that way, which is why this post is turning into a flame war.

I still stand by my analogy. You complain about something that its free. If your furniture start asking you to donate you throw it away or return it. I'll reiterate, you have no right to demand anything. Asking, sure, you can ask the maintainer. But opening a public issue and gathering a toxic support group for your own "campaign" it does not just harm the maintainer, but it harms me. I use Core-js, unfortunately i wasn't aware of his predicament, so ill try to donate something his way.

The only good thing you have done is to annoy other people enough to donate in spite of you; it was more effective than the actual log message, for which i sincerely congratulate you. But other that that, I am sorry, but your comments are just childish and full of entitlement. And sorry if you feel personally attacked by anything that i said, not my intention. You might have good intentions and yes you can definitely give feedback, but it was your whole tone of voice that triggered this storm. I am triggered because I saw hundreds of comments jumping and OSS maintainers throat like the maintainers owe them something.

[jonaskuske]

So to me this analogy is upside down. To me, a better example would be: I pass by a place that hands out free furniture, and set that furniture up in my living room. Everything is fine for a while, until one of the sofas say 'please donate to my maker' every time I walk through the door. Turns out it's not the entire sofa, it's just one of the cushions. It's my living room, everything I brought through that door I did with the understanding that it wouldn't start making noises about what I should be doing.

That analogy is broken. You didn't take the one sofa, you get a new and improved sofa from this place every once in a while. Some day the place decides that it can't afford this anymore and adds a note "please support us" to the sofa. You're free to keep your old sofa without the note however!

So going by the Sofa analogy, lock your dependencies to versions without the postinstall message and enjoy all the free work you can profit of, without ads!

[cherscarlett]

If everyone in this thread contributed to his open collective, he wouldn't need the ads anymore.

We're getting free software, that we ALL use, and the person who has worked tirelessly on it is struggling financially, while we are all thriving off of his back.

Forking his work, @jpike88, and no longer encouraging folks to donate is absolutely classless and harmful, and I am deeply ashamed of the entitlement we have come to. Someone in our community needs our help, clearly, and your solution is to take advantage of his work for your own selfish want to not see his plea for that help.

[jpike88]

@cherscarlett you and some others here are totally mischaracterising where I'm coming from. Instead of mindlessly joining the righteous brigade, take a step back and understand WHY some people have reacted negatively to this. In the real world, no issue is black and white. People have different angles, and while you may THINK you're right because you're joining in a wave of others with the same message, you're only ever so right.

This post was created a month ago, and likes/dislikes racked evenly because those who came to the repo actually encountered the issue themselves. Things went quiet, and points were exchanged, the argument was made without any needless drama and came to a close. Then suddenly BAM it hits twitter and a bunch of people have fresh meat to tear into. The amount of manufactured drama I'm seeing here is insane.

You should closely read what I've posted, everything I've posted, in this thread. Then you should edit your post and remove the part where I'm not encouraging support for @zloirock. I have simply been advocating the importance of current conventions, and am not, nor was I ever trying to start a shitstorm aimed at the maintainer. If I could remove this entire thread due to the toxic things said here, I would. He was always capable of shoring up work without a bunch of keyboard warriors flocking in from social media.

@ConstantinChirila passive aggressive remarks aside, you're right, I've brought attention to him through this, and that can only help him. Not what I intended of course, I just wanted to make my point... but I'm genuinely glad. But I stand by everything I've said because I think it has its merits. I'm not going to throw mud at anybody because I didn't come here to do that.

[veermangat]

@jpike88 I have upvoted your issue, not because I liked what was said but because this has prompted babel to pay @zloirock $5000. Which is awesome.

[jpike88]

Great, it makes sense for Babel to support him, and it's long overdue. It's almost like I can still stand behind my original argument while having empathy for the maintainer.

[jlengstorf]

@jpike88 the vast majority of free things are ad-supported: public transit, infrastructure, broadcast TV, Google, social media — open source _not_ being ad-supported is an exception, not the rule. Attacking volunteers because the model is broken is picking the wrong hill to die on.

Yes, a few lines sent to stdout is a little noisy, but compared to the cost/annoyance of hand-rolling all of our software and dealing with the maintenance of it, it's an extraordinarily small price to pay.

Overall: it would be great if OSS didn’t have ads. That would require the companies profiting from open source to establish budgets and compensate the developers putting in those hours in a way that makes it sustainable.

In the meantime, I've backed this project on Open Collective. I'll continue pushing my employer and others to sponsor the OSS projects powering our products. I hope y'all will do the same.

[AlexCatch]

Honestly the amount of entitlement in this thread is baffling. He could put the entire works of Shakespeare in the post install message and no one has the right to challenge it unless they put in as much work as the author. If you don't like it, don't use it. Simple as.

[jpike88]

a few lines sent to stdout is a little noisy

Well, my point is that a few can become more than a few. That was always my sole point. And someone has to be advocating for that. Because if it becomes acceptable for other projects to do it, we may see a cascade of log hell across countless servers around the world. And that becomes the new normal.

I'll chat to my partners about backing the project too, after all the shit I've stirred he deserves that much from me.

[mugabe]

The main problem that the most of developers underestimate the role of core-js. I think a lot of them even don't have idea what this library do. _Hey, it's core of js, should it not be supported by Google, Mozilla, NodeJS?_
But five lines of adverts from library that was not included directly by the end developer is really harms. I think it would be more effective if @zloyrock leave only one line with short and simple explanation what is it for and one link to the support page.

@jpike88 If I could remove this entire thread due to the toxic things said here, I would.

But it's fun to see your recent edits of old comments 🙃 Now that said things not so toxic.

[kossnocorp]

@mugabe haha, love the edits history 👌

[garygreen]

It's worth reminding.

[jpike88]

But it's fun to see your recent edits of old comments 🙃 Now that said things not so toxic

@mugabe no, I was referring to the part where I got called a f**ing asshole. My edits removed what was an admittely harsh tone in a few spots to make the point of my issue clearer. There was never name calling, or any sort of disparaging of @zloirock, I'm sure he'd back me up on that. And it's still going to be enough to upset some people.

[cherscarlett]

@jpike88 Sit down. I read what you wrote, and saw your fork. That is where I'm coming from. I came across this issue because I care deeply about our community, and a post sharing specifically his comment about his financial situation led me here. You don't get to say that I'm mischaracterizing your intention and then say that I'm a part of an angry mob with no mind of my own.

The fact is that after reading that @zloirock gets no compensation for one of the most heavily used packages in our ecosystem, and how much financial trouble he is in currently, you continued to hock your ad-free fork, instead of asking _how_ you can help remove the need for advertising and get him compensated for his hard work.

Keep in mind how many of us came in here after doing something to help @zloirock get the compensation he has deserved for a long time. You could have done the same thing, but you haven't. I'm sure everyone will consider you forgiven for your classless behavior here once we see your face on his patreon or open collective.

Even a $1 a month contribution helps. You can become a backer here:

🎉 https://opencollective.com/core-js 🎉

[jpike88]

@cherscarlett if you read his post, you'd realise how dire his situation is, and how meagre his income from core-js is, even after all this attention. He needs a stable income _now_, and like I've already said multiple times, he's more than capable of getting one quickly with his credentials. He'd be snapped up by any decent software shop in Europe. There was already talk early on about whether or not Babel should be supporting him (or more importantly, whether or not they're obligated to, and what that means), and they've literally just doubled his open collective budget. But it's only $5000USD for a yearly budget. If that's coming from Babel, then he'd need a huge amount more exposure to make this tenable. I'm for practical measures not token gestures.

Maybe instead of trying to shame an individual, you should be applying pressure to those that can actually make living off core-js a realistic scenario. And that's all the bigger organisations that use this project.

[whitfin]

Are you running an ad blocker in the browser to make web pages do not show ads? It is the same thing here more or less.

@igeligel there is a large difference between npm being run silently and using an Ad blocker in a browser. Silent npm is closer to the analogy of your browser ad blocker also making every web page blank.

This package added a straight forward env variable that allows you to disable the ads easily, which is way more than your average website does for you – now what's "ridiculous" about that?!

You either misread or misunderstood; I said people telling you to change your npm configuration to fix this is ridiculous. The environment variable is fine, except that it's not communicated in the message itself. People will only find it after they come to the repository to complain.

It's also not a good mechanism in general; imagine your ad blocker in a browser but you have to install a different blocker for every website. Am I meant to just export $ADBLOCK forever, just for this package? What if someone makes a package with $NO_ADS and $REMOVE_ADS, etc?

“I don’t use the package” is similarly short-sighted. That’s the point...that you don’t think that you use it, when in reality you almost certainly do.

@KyeRussell this is evidently aimed at what I said, so I'd like to point out that I wasn't just saying it for the sake of it. A dependency in a work project did not separate their dependencies properly, and so I have a bunch of @babel dependencies which depend on core-js (which are all entirely unused). Not a big deal, but just found it worth mentioning that calling someone short-sighted when you don't know their circumstance is never going to help things. Give people more credit!

@jpike88 I don't particularly care for this thread; I was brought here on a bored evening after seeing the message half a dozen times during an install. After seeing what this thread is becoming, I probably won't comment further, and I'd probably advise you to do the same. You've been given an answer; using an environment variable to suppress the message. This is the solution to this issue; you're probably not going to get another one. I think it would be beneficial to close this for everyone involved.

As a note to everyone arguing on behalf of the author, particularly those using the concept of "if you don't like it, don't use it"; please keep in mind what you are arguing for. Lessening the audience of the package is potentially more harmful than removing the message itself. An advertisement is worthless without an audience.

Anyway, going to unsubscribe at this point. Have a good week everyone!

[cherscarlett]

@jpike88 I read his post, and immediately started drawing more attention to his open-collective. I've already gotten my org to sponsor him. I backed him personally, too. I've lifted his situation to more than 10,000 people on my Twitter, and encouraged everyone to back him. Please don't assume to know what I'm doing to help.

It would do you well to become a backer, close this issue, and remove your fork.

If you feel shame by what I've said to you, look inward and consider your actions in the future.

[ThomasRedstone]

Which way of giving you money results in you keeping more of the money?

[alanna]

If people were already supporting open source projects enough, they wouldn't need to ask for donations. That is how to fix this problem, not by criticising maintainers who have given untold hours of their time for free to create something that you obviously value (since you are installing it).

Like with everything in open source, be grateful for the hard work others have gifted—and if you don't like something, contribute (code and/or money) to improve it, fork it, or don't use it. Open source maintainers burn out because people like those in this thread are entitled, demanding, and negative, instead of supportive, and that hurts the whole community.

[hinell]

Wow, thanks for complaining. Without you I wouldn't know that such a great repo has started an advertisement. Probably it wasn't the best way but I think you have to donate some pennies so he can fix output or do it by yourself. Now you can close this issue safely.

[danielrree]

@zloirock:

Because of one accident, now I have some serious problems for tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars and a real chance to be in prison - doubtful pleasure - interesting, who will maintain core-js in this case?

@nathanjd:

Would my donations be going towards legal fees for some harm that you have caused? I understand that an accident can cause unemployment and high medical bills itself but from your wording, you seem to be at fault.

@zloirock:

Seems so, thanks to our stupid law.

Disclaimer: I do not know about this situation more than you (reader) do.

The way I see it at this moment (after reading this discussion), it is not a fundraiser for a developer who spends a lot of his personal time to develop this project (i.e. investing into further work on the project, which I understand and fully support), but it seems to be a fundraiser to cover legal expenses for a person who potentially harmed someone or damaged property.

I think it would be quite hard to understand for people living in EU or USA, but here's a short explanation: in Russia, there's a limit for driving accidents' 3rd party liability insurance, which is around 8000 USD (compared to EU's millions of EUR). An excess should be covered directly by the person who caused such harm. And it's really hard to buy any other kind of 3rd party liability insurance, so it's either you have this small insurance or nothing.

So if he estimates his potential expenses to be more than a hundred thousands dollars, then it was probably something REALLY serious. Personally I am not ready to pay someone's lawyer to prove that person is not guilty (especially if he himself says that he's guilty according to the law).

@zloirock I'm not sure if you are ready to share the details. At the same time I think that if you really need money to cover such expenses, it would be fair to share some details with people who give you their hard-earned money.

[hinell]

@danielrree
Apparently you don't know well Russian legal or judicial system.

it is not a fundraiser for a developer who spends a lot of his personal time to develop this project

I would like to point out that he _already did spend_ a lot of time and moneys and it is never too late to ask for some help to recover some of these expenses back. There could be a lot of reasons to do that right now.
But what I don't get is the way you justify things in this case.

Nobody can guarantee you that what you have donated won't go to lawyers to cover legal expenses in the future cause such things may happen completely unpredictably in whole bunch of cases, yet once you know about them and knowing that work was done you are all of sudden "not ready"...

That's ridiculously childish way to treat things.:smirk:

[danielrree]

@hinell

Apparently you don't know well Russian legal or judicial system.

Then explain please, how it works in Russia. I personally know one person who is currently in Russian prison for lawful activity. But there are laws and if you live in or visit a country, you need to play by the rules.

If he had said something like "I'm being set up by the (police / government / judges / detectives / prosecutors)", I wouldn't even have gotten involved in this thread at all. But he chose to say that "thanks to our stupid law, I am at fault", which implies that he is not being set up, but there's law and he's guilty according to it. I know there are unfair laws. I know there are cases when people are made guilty for no apparent reason. And if he's not guilty and is being set up, publicity might help him (but he will have to get journalists involved).

I sincerely hope he will be fine, not because he is an author of this package, but because he is a human being. I asked for details for this very reason, to avoid making any assumptions.

That's ridiculously childish way to treat things.😏

I'm sorry, but I did not personally insult neither him or you, so please refrain from judging other person's actions based on your standards. I read a discussion, couldn't draw any conclusions (because there was not enough info), asked for more info, and tried to do it without much guesswork but still tried to explain my point of view. I will not comment on the reasons why "asking for financial help when you got legal issues" is a bit different thing from "asking for financial help to work on this project full time" because I want to avoid saying anything that can make anyone think I'm trying to accuse him of something.

[hinell]

I personally know one person who is currently in Russian prison for lawful activity.

That's entirely possible thing here sadly. You may contact me if you want so we can talk more about him cause I'm personally Russian and I'm interested in such cases. Especially if they are illegal.

"thanks to our stupid law, I am at fault"
implies that he is not being set up, but there's law and he's guilty according to it.
I asked for details for this very reason, to avoid making any assumptions.

You've made assumptions which are far further than what he've actually said (he didn't say "at fault"). We may not interpret in any way unless he clarifies everything. On the other side I don't believe he could have engaged in any illegal activity though it's pure speculations so please, don't make far going assumptions which are based only on your perceived standards.

On the other hand I understand if folks won't be willing to support Russian regime in any way so it's reasonable (I won't do it too lol) but I personally hope that he eventually clarifies everything and it's gonna be fine. He is looking for the job btw so I think he is optimistic in this sense (which is another reason btw which probably makes your conclusions wrong).

so please refrain from judging

Oh fine, I won't.

[juliannovy]

@danielrree

but there's law and he's guilty according to it. I know there are unfair laws. I know there are cases when people are made guilty for no apparent reason. And if he's not guilty and is being set up, publicity might help him (but he will have to get journalists involved).

Ohhh, you are so naive my friend :) The law doesn't work in Russia and publicity + journalists will not help at all..... even if they try they go to jail as well.

[hinell]

@ju1i4n My Germany friend probably knows what he is talking about but this is unrelated to this issue. :smirk:

[juliannovy]

@hinell, I’m not German, just work here ;)

[danielrree]

@hinell I based my assumption on these two phrases which went like this:

Person 1: from your wording, you seem to be at fault.

Person 2: Seems so, thanks to our stupid law.

But probably you are right, I jumped to a conclusion because I wanted to explain my point. I never assumed that he engaged in illegal activity. There are a ton of things person can do without bad intentions, and still be held liable. And there's probably no point in discussing it further, because there's not enough info.

If my words sound like an insult to someone — I'm sorry and I didn't intend to hurt anyone's feelings.

I also want to say sorry to @zloirock for my assumptions because he's the person we are talking about here, and he didn't get a chance to say anything yet. I hope your situation will be resolved.

[remy]

@zloirock I've had similar (though less of) kick back for having a post install message on nodemon. What I did in the end was read a timestamp file/config during the post install to only show the message once a week. It seemed to calm things down a lot.

I also added an env value that people could use if they _really_ wanted to ignore the request for help: https://github.com/remy/nodemon/blob/master/bin/postinstall.js

In your case, I don't imagine you want to add the configstore dependency, but I'd reckon it could be coded in a way that just used fs to look for a timestamp config.

Just a thought - though I do think it should be up to someone other than @zloirock to implement this/send a PR, as it has a direct effect on potential support they might receive.

[gkatsanos]

@zloirock I don't know where you're based, but with your skills, getting you a job in Berlin would be easier than opening my fridge for a sip of milk. (and I'm pretty close to my fridge). It'd actually take less time to find a job via Linkedin or StackoverFlow jobs than the time you took to add the postinstall message. I am serious.
Same applies for London, Stockholm, Barcelona, Vienna, hell, you could even get a decent frontend job in Athens or Rome if you miss the sunshine.
Seriously, if you'd consider Berlin, ping me on www.gplus.gr .

[waynebloss]

Isn't this breaking the NPM Acceptable Use policy?

1. You will not send advertisements, chain letters, or other solicitations via npm Services.

[lancecaraccioli]

This entire thread is troubling. A valuable member of our community has produced free (as in beer) software that you can chose to use freely (as in liberty) or not. This is the spirit of open source software. If you don't like it then feel free to just not use the software.

I will be completely surprised if @zloirock doesn't receive 20 job offers from silicon valley companies looking for a competent JS Engineer. Good luck @zloirock, thanks for what you do.

[waynebloss]

@lancecaraccioli Mussolini also allegedly kept the trains running on time.

Giving someone a free pass to do whatever else they want with your resources, despite the fact that they produced a piece of software that happens to be used by a dependency of a dependency of a dependency is not the spirit of open source software.

People are perfectly within their right to simultaneously use this software and also complain about the quality of non-software-producing actions taken by the author. If you don't like that, then I guess you could also feel free to simply stop listening to the complaints...

I hope the guy finds a job too! And I'm glad he made some useful software. I'm just not going to keep quiet if he comes over my house and poops in the bed though, sorry.

[lancecaraccioli]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[waynebloss]

Care to entertain us with what you think is relevant about Godwin's law here?

Anyway... :roll_eyes: just look at how Mozilla, arguably the largest non-profit open source producer in the world, treated Brendan Eich for simply donating a little money to an anti-gay-marriage campaign.

They fired him and spoke very harshly about him in public.

Therefore, I would go so far to say that lambasting someone for any kind of action that you don't agree with personally or politically is exactly in the spirit of open source software.

[rjgotten]

@waynebloss
Care to entertain us with what you think is relevant about Godwin's law here?

Does someone really have to spell it out? Mussolini was Italy's Hitler and his fascists, the Italian nazis.
The comparison you are making is that Mussolini is to his running of the railroads as @zloirock is to giving us CoreJS, implying that all the inhumane horrors Mussolini was responsible for jointly with Hitler are similar to everything else @zloirock has done, not limited to the ad being embedded into CoreJS.

If that's not invoking Godwin's law then I don't know what is. And HO - LY -- SHIIIIIIIIIT are you ever making one of the most offensive comparions in recent history based on it. Like; damn...

[waynebloss]

@rjgotten No such comparison was made...as a simple mention used to make a very salient point does not equate to a comparison in any way whatsoever.

Also, you have no subtlety of thought.

Nice try though!! :smile:

[nukeop]

@waynebloss wiping the floor with noobs

[hush2]

So, when is this message going to go away? When he has a job, a million dollars, ... when? Assuming it gets removed, what happens when he needs another job or more money? Message will be back again?

[alanna]

@hush2 - probably. If you don't like it, feel free to fork and maintain your own version. @zloirock can to literally whatever they want with their own repo.

This issue is not going away until we fix the wider problem of resourcing open source, instead of everyone sitting back like consumers and complaining while other people do free work.

The level of entitlement in this thread is staggering. If you want software where you get to have some kind of contract about what its creators can or can't do, buy commercial software.

[hush2]

@alanna

literally whatever they want

Uhmm.. no.

Anyway, i just type this so no more annoying messages from entitled beggars 😄

npm config set loglevel="warn"

[nukeop]

what's really entitled is using everybody's install logs as advertising space for free

[lazarljubenovic]

The level of entitlement in this thread is staggering. If you want software where you get to have some kind of contract about what its creators can or can't do, buy commercial software.

The level of entitlement in this comment is staggering. If you want a platform where you get to silence the voice of everyone you don't agree with, go back to Twitter echo chambers.

[rjgotten]

If you want a platform where you get to silence the voice of everyone

Which is exactly what you are now doing by attacking @alanna on one observational remark in the message, and ignoring the most pertinent part. Namely:

This issue is not going away until we fix the wider problem of resourcing open source, instead of everyone sitting back like consumers and complaining while other people do free work.

-- and that point is absolutely correct.

[lazarljubenovic]

She's attacking people who are commenting about a feature they dislike. Nobody is holding the repo owner at gunpoint and forcing him to make the changes they want to see in his software. He has free will to do whatever he wants: get rid of the ad, add more ads, delete the repo, make more libs with more ads.

But when you do something and make it available for the world to see, there will be people who will like it and dislike it. This issue was opened by people who disliked the ad, and they were explaining why they don't think it's a good idea to do so. They say they think the ads should be gone, and explain why ads don't belong in developer logs.

Then, warriors of justice enter the scene with a very hypocritical logic: "The repo owner is allowed to do whatever he wants with his lib, but _you_ are not allowed to complain that you don't like it. Oh and by the way, _I_ am allowed to complain about the fact that you dislike it!"

I am not silencing anyone; I have neither the desire or the power to do so. She's free to comment on the issue and express her opinion. I just don't think it's fair to talk down on people who dislike the ads in their logs. Of course we can stop using the software if we don't like it. But that doesn't mean we don't get to talk about why we dislike it, and how we can change it, and why dev's log isn't the best place to place your personal advertisement.

The logic "if you don't like it, don't use it and stop complaining" makes no sense. Firstly, nothing would ever improve then. Secondly, just by saying that, _you're_ the one complaining about complaints. So it backfires immediately: why don't _you_ just ignore the comments if you don't like them and stop complaining about them?

[rjgotten]

The logic "if you don't like it, don't use it and stop complaining" makes no sense.

That's _not_ the logic here though. The logic here is more like: "there's no good solution that will satisfy all parties until the bigger issue (of commercially resourcing from open-source) is resolved, but if you want to bypass the author's wishes; you're always free to fork."

[lazarljubenovic]

There's a very good solution here: use an advertising platform to advertise yourself, not people's developer logs.

[alanna]

Because it's super damaging to the ecosystem to direct negativity and complaints at maintainers who have already given so so much for free. That's how you get burnout, and less great open source shared with the world.

Instead of complaining, work constructively to solve the root causes of what you dislike, by contributing to the project (code, money, offering other support) or by working on the larger issue of open source sustainability. Negative, entitled complaining from non-contributing users is a major factor in open source maintainer burnout, which harms projects we love and use, and ultimately harms our ecosystem.

Instead of asking yourself "Do I like this?" ask yourself "How can I help?"

[lazarljubenovic]

Because it's super damaging to the ecosystem to direct negativity and complaints at maintainers who have already given so so much for free.

How is it damaging to point out that the owner used a wrong place to advertise his personal issues in a dev log? Why does it matter that it's free? Nobody is saying that they are ripped off and that they demand their money back. It still doesn't change the fact that the ad is misplaced.

Instead of complaining, work constructively to solve the root causes of what you dislike

The root cause is owner's misunderstanding about what the developer log is for, and failure to predict the exact consequence of logging random messages.

I don't have a problem with him asking for job. I don't have a problem with asking for money, for code contributions, etc. I don't have a problem if he decided to delete the lib from npm and break a lot of libraries. Those are risks that everyone using open source needs to accept.

I have a problem with spamming me with a message about his personal issues in my developer log. How precisely am I supposed to address that issue without _talking_ about it, and hence, complaining about it? You're using the word "complaining" as if it's something negative. Not all complaining means a child screaming that his mom won't let him eat more cookies. Most people who have posted here are having constructive complaints. They explain why they feel the way they feel and why they think the ad is misplaced.

by contributing to the project (code, money, offering other support)

So whenever someone decides to start spamming us with their "I'm looking for a job" ads, we're all supposed to donate money to him because we're using his library as transitive dependencies? Doesn't sound like a very "free" software.

Some people will contribute to this repo, some to others. Some won't contribute at all. There's not problem with that; if you don't want to contribute, you don't have to. People decide to share their code with the world for free and with a permissive licence, without expecting anything in return, because they feel nice doing so. If you expect people to financially support you while "doing it for free", then... just don't do it for free?

Negative, entitled complaining from non-contributing users

What's the deal with that word, "entitled"? Of course everyone's entitled to write that they don't like the ad. Why does it matter that they're non-contributing? The software is _free_. Apparently you want me to pay the project by contributing to it, and only then I'm "entitled" to complain about one of its features?

[rjgotten]

I have a problem with spamming me with a message about his personal issues in my developer log. How precisely am I supposed to address that issue without talking about it, and hence, complaining about it?

First off: zloirock already is offering a solution: you can set an environment variable to surpress the ad message.

You can ofcourse not agree with that solution, e.g. because it doesn't solve the log spam issue out of the box, but requires user intervention.

A constructive solution would then be to address that concern and point zloirock at how other implementations may limit the message to only be shown on first install. And if you want to go further than that, you could even refactor the postinstall script to work that way and offer it as a pull request.

What you _shouldn't_ do is start a 100+ comments long reiteration of the same complaint that he should _remove_ the log message, because you don't agree from the idealistic point of view that the developer log is the developer's property and they get to decide what goes in there and what doesn't.

(And _that_ is the entitlement being brought up.)

[waynebloss]

Obviously the real solution here will be to simply get NPM Inc. to enforce or change their own policy. Therefore, I'd like to change my stance. To all JS devs everywhere - please keep feeling entitled to spew your trashy advertising into my developer logs.

Everybody who doesn't like it should report this package to NPM as I plan to this morning.

@rjgotten Actually, no. There was no solution offered to prevent ever seeing the advertisement once. Probably nobody here chose to use this package as it's a deep dependency for things people actually chose to use. So they're going to see the advertisement at least once before they head off to find out where to complain about it. Then, thankfully, they'll find this thread. The weasly "solution" you spoke of, to create an environment var, isn't mentioned anywhere in the advertisement itself or even in the README.

What you shouldn't do is start a 100+ comments long reiteration.

Yes, we should because obviously people who are utterly tone-deaf need to be virtually beaten over the head and about the face with the same information until they get with the program.

Anyway, what are you gonna do about it? I have an account on GitHub. GitHub lets me post these comments. Maybe you should go complain to the establishment?

[waynebloss]

Also, I invite everybody to post a job-wanted ad here and elsewhere for packages that advertise on NPM. If they're entitled to our dev logs, we're entitled to trash their issue sections. gg ez buh bye now.

[jeffstokes72]

I wish everyone in the world had it so good that their main worry was a text blob in a log file...

[waynebloss]

I wish everyone in the world was so short-sighted that they thought that one single text blob in a log file was the whole problem... I could make a lot more money off of these people! I also wish everyone in the world had it so good that their main worry was comments in an issue about a text blob in a log file...

Furthermore, if it wasn't clear to anyone else, when someone types into this text box it clearly shows that the thing they're typing about is their main worry in life! This was news to me, but very important to point out.

Yes folks, if you're complaining here -it's your main worry in life. This is now known and it has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. So if you're main worry in life is about all these here complainers, let us know by making a really smart comment and expanding the conversation into a new dimension!

[waynebloss]

Oh and I forgot - I need a job. Pleeeeeeeease!!!

If, by chance, this is not the most appropriate place to be advertising this fact, perhaps there is some method for other people to communicate with me about that.

My suggestion would be to create an NPM package and name it please-dont-advertise-your-job-search-in-my-issues-waynebloss. Actually no, that would be too much work. Just put your complaints as a new issue on this repo and I'll keep checking here.

[zloirock]

Sorry if someone waiting for my answer to questions from this thread. I'm unsubscribed from this issue for a long time and seems, because of the shit from the comments, it was a good choice. I learned a lot of new about myself. Interesting, thanks.

Thanks to all people and companies who support core-js on Open Collective and Patreon. Because of you, I'll not stop core-js maintenance completely.

[tildechris]

@zloirock - first off, thanks for your contributions. F/OSS ownership is too often a thankless job.

In this case, however, I would have to agree that the installation log is not a good place to self-promote.

I think you could make the argument if somebody was directly depending upon your package, but for transitive dependencies the first thought for users is "What is core-js"?

Is it possible that you would reconsider your decision?

[dmellstrom]

@zloirock
So, you now have adequate financial backing for this project. Will you remove the npm spam?
Is there any level of support that will cause you to remove it? Or is it in there for good...
The annual budget between the Patreon and OpenCollective is now over $18k!

Have you gotten any offers yet?
Five weeks is an awful long time for someone like you to be out of a job.
Perhaps you are getting complacent with all the donations pouring in?
Perhaps you figure you'll just continue to milk the cash cow that core-js has become?

[rjgotten]

@zloirock

In the interest of providing a potential solution to this problem regarding indirect dependencies and each individual dependency writing out the log message, may I suggest an alternate - less intrusive - solution.

The script you are using to emit the log message should be able to read the package.json file corresponding to the current install or update operation. You could set it up to choose to not emit the log message if there is no direct mention of the core-js package in the dependencies or devDependencies arrays.

As an additional thought: this would also enable others that are completely averse to the message appearing, or those that for technical reasons cannot have it appear - e.g. due to problems with their build automation tools - to install CoreJS via a shim package that doesn't actually contain any code; just a dependency on the core-js package.

Doesn't mean a maintenance burden for you. One of the complaining parties can put their money where their mouth is and step up to maintain it. And those that don't trust such an intermediary can invest in a private package stream and set up such a package themselves easily. It doesn't even require writing a single line of code, so any software support analyst; build engineer; etc. should be able to cope.

In short:

• Users that consciously choose to avoid it, will be able to avoid it via a shim.
• Users that didn't install core-js directly themselves won't be bugged by it.
• Users that don't care and did install the package directly, will still see it.

Honestly; that sounds like a decent resolution.

[justusromijn]

An angle that I seem to miss in this thread, is that if it that log was worded differently, it might have not sparked this discussion as it would be log-worthy. If @zloirock is not able to maintain it due financial reasons, then this project might become _deprecated_, so in that sense the log could be a deprecation warning and pointing to Patreon / Open Collective. Say something like this:

I'm not capable of fully maintaining corejs anymore, so it will become deprecated soon. If you want this package to stay up to date, consider supporting at ...

My two cents 😄

[ConsoleTVs]

I found a fix guys!

Steps to fix the issue:

• Don't use this library if it bothers you?

This is open source, and it's not even a group repo. Instead of complaining, go fork and remove the line that bothers you. Because hey, Looking at some message while developing (and only when installing the dependency tbh) is a real pain to you, as a dev, because well, u can't use that line it takes for other things, right? Or maybe he should add some emojies so you are all happy? Wtf man, just don't use it, and if u want to use it without the text, either clone and remove it, or use the provided solution.

it's also hilarious to note how many open source repositories does @jpike88 have (not forked ones ofc lol) to come here and complain that much. Fuck, just don't use it, maybe your ending blundle will be lower and your user happier with less download content.

[greygatch]

These log messages are against npm policy and are breaking other people's projects.

Saying "just don't use the package" is incredibly naive and unrealistic, as many people who work with this OS software probably don't have a say in what packages they can use.

[JacksonKearl]

Don't mind the message one way or another, but can we at least add eyes to the emoticon?

[ConsoleTVs]

It's against their policy, then it shall be removed.

[lazarljubenovic]

Don't use this library if it bothers you?

Is that how you solve all your life problems? Run away? When there's a bug in your code, one solution would be to delete the whole codebase, right?

[rjgotten]

It's against their policy, then it shall be removed.

With so many brand-name packages and many, many more build setups depending on the core-js package?

Highly unlikely.
NPM would want to strive to avoid another left-pad incident.

[lazarljubenovic]

There's no way npm team would ever do something about this; the whole team probably encourages it. If anything, they'll tweak the ToC/CoC so this fits in some loophole.

In a couple of years, npm logs will tell me how to increase my penis for 4 inches in ten days.

[nukeop]

I have already contacted the npm support team to clarify their position on this. They responded that this particular instance is not a clear cut case but that they will keep an eye on the trend to ensure it's not abused.

[MauricioFerraz]

@JacksonKearl

can we at least add eyes to the emoticon?

there's a pull request for that:

585

[hush2]

This is like a reverse AdBlock extortion method.

AdBLock = pay us and we will allow ads.
zloirock = pay me and I will remove the ads.

[Qix-]

@zloirock Yes, I saw this issue. You haven't responded to any of the people here beyond a long winded "I'm entitled" speech. You're impeding thousands of people's day-to-day work and violating NPM policy.

Respond, please.

[AlexCatch]

@Qix-

You're impeding thousands of people's day-to-day work`

It's a log at the end of the postinstall, you're treating it like another left-pad issue when it's really just a slight inconvenience.

A lot of other open source packages advertise their open collective page, it's a pretty common thing but I think they implement work arounds to prevent it from displaying 10s of times if multiple deps depend on it.

[AlexCatch]

@zloirock I'd just lock this issue, I don't think there isn't really anything constructive left to say after 140+ comments.

[Qix-]

It's a log at the end of the postinstall, you're treating it like another left-pad issue when it's really just a slight inconvenience.

When a problem occurs on an install and I have to debug, it makes things incredibly hard to go through. It also introduces hundreds of lines of extra debugging. It also slows down installing over a remote connection because console output is not free (it's rather expensive).

Plus, it's just plain annoying, especially when you're running installs quite frequently.

That definitely fits the definition of "impediment".

---

I've already lodged a formal complaint with npm, so lock this issue as you wish.

[ahmadnassri]

Hey everyone,

A few of you have contacted us at npm, pointing to this issue, thank you!

I justed wanted to let you know we've been following the conversation here and we are looking to update our Policy to better articulate and message our Acceptable Use definitions, expectations and actionable outcomes.

Legal terminology can get a bit tricky here and we are also taking into consideration the pattern that is emerging in the industry today around donations and support for Open Source projects.

Thank you for your patience.

[ErikHumphrey]

I think that some lines in NPM installation log, which can be hidden if it's required, are an acceptable price for using core-js.

Part of the problem is that you can't easily set logging levels for individual packages. Though one could say that's an npm issue.

[whitfin]

@ahmadnassri

I think a good pattern to follow here (in addition to updated terms) is to build something into npm as a tool where authors can place these types of adverts. Maybe the package.json can have a property such as:

"donate": "./donation.txt"

This file is then dumped to the terminal on npm install. The extra benefit of making this a first-class feature of npm itself is that we can have an npm flag to turn off (only) donation messages if we choose to. In this case, everyone should be happy as they are able to choose whether they care or not.

A few people in this thread have resolved to turning them off by changing their log levels; this is not a practice we should encourage IMO as you can easily miss something of importance in other packages. We should instead be able to mute just the advertisements (especially because your comment hints at these types of things moving into "Acceptable Use").

[nukeop]

this is a great way to have your install log spammed with "drink coca cola" and "eat at burger king" in no time (if you disable it in npm it's gonna make its way into other channels)

npm is a package manager and shoving ads into it is just evil, advertisements are an assault on our mental health and any space that they did not yet penetrate should be defended from them tooth and nail

[ErikHumphrey]

First npm-install sounds fine, or make it so it works with npm-install but not npm-ci somehow.

[whitfin]

@nukeop that view doesn't really make sense. Do you currently have those things in your log? My suggestion does not give people new powers, it just moves them to a specific place (which can be easily turned off).

@ErikHumphrey that can be up to npm, as long as it's controlled by npm we have the ability to make these decisions are a broader community (to the benefit of everyone).

[zloirock]

Apparently, I must comment on this topic one more time.

Seems someone does not understand: this message does not provide any serious donations. Some donations were added only after the hype about this issue. Why it was initially added - you can see above. It's still here only because of all negative from this and related threads. And it will not be removed because of all those shit - it became a matter of principle. Someone wrote that it causes a problem for thousands of people, for almost all just esthetic - but seems they forgot that core-js helps millions of people use websites on old browsers. Where they are? Ah, they just do not know that they use core-js - take a look on all recent posts about JS standard library, for example: 1, 2, 3 - "you can use it in your projects thanks to Babel and other JavaScript transpilers".

If someone wanna just improve postinstall logic - it's other issues like this. For the mentioned above reason, disabling showing of the postinstall message if they have no direct core-js dependency is not a good idea. But, for example, @remy proposed a good idea - I'll accept a PR which limits the number of messages to one per installation for preventing something like this.

If for some reason npm will decide to disallow this message in postinstall - it will be moved to applications log - Node / browsers console. If for some reason will be disabled ability to publish packages with this message - we will have one more left-pad-like problem, but much more serious. And after that 2 options - or core-js will not be maintained completely, or it will be maintained as a commercial-only project. Yes, I am ready to kill it as a free open source project, if it will be required by the protection of my rights.

Authors of new negative non-constructive comments related to the postinstall message will be banned. Authors of new similar issues will be banned.

Any final thoughts before locking this issue? -)

[ibnuda]

@zloirock, i don't write js or anything that compiled to it. but i genuinely like your decision for making this issue as a matter of principle.

best wishes for your endeavour.

[J7mbo]

I think something should be made crystal clear here.

Open source maintainers owe you NOTHING. You are using their software that they have made available to you, and you do not have any right to demand anything. You can make a request and the maintainer has every right to say no, just as you have every right not to use the software.

Maintainer - you might lock the issue, ignore the people who have not yet realised what toxicity is, (I’ve seen one or two of their pics on Twitter and if you were to run their messages through a classification also they would be broadly negative, which should tell you all you need to know about them).

[chowbok]

This thread makes me hate humanity. The maintainer is putting tons of time to provide a free service to people, and people are complaining because there's an ad in the log? What entitled, bratty little bitches you whiners are. If somebody gave you a car, you'd probably complain that it wasn't red.

@zloirock , you're far too patient with these jerks. You don't owe them an explanation. You should have your app send giant ASCII-art turds to stdout just to annoy them.

(P. S., somebody should really teach @Qix- how to use grep)

[ErikHumphrey]

@chowbok I think the point is that almost no other package maintainers do this. But there’s nothing wrong with being a trendsetter. It’s just that many people disagree with the methodology and are respectfully showing @zloirock the door. But while these people are vocal, the reactions suggest that there are more people that are OK with it than those who aren’t OK with it. But it’s pretty close to a tie—quite controversial.

Of course, there are always forks like core-js-without-ads.

[AlexCatch]

@chowbok I think the point is that almost no other package maintainers do this. But there’s nothing wrong with being a trendsetter. It’s just that many people disagree with the methodology and are respectfully showing @zloirock the door. But while these people are vocal, the reactions suggest that there are more people that are OK with it than those who aren’t OK with it. But it’s pretty close to a tie—quite controversial.

Of course, there are always forks like core-js-without-ads.

It's very common for maintainers to advertise they're on open collective etc.

[J7mbo]

Again you have no say apart from suggestion in someone else’s software. That’s proven simply by the fact the guy owns the repository and you’re making requests. The poor attitude would be enough for me not to do it were it my repository.

[stefankip]

So yeah, this sucks to be honest:

```> [email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/@storybook/addons/node_modules/core-js

node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/@storybook/angular/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/@storybook/channel-postmessage/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/@storybook/channels/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/@storybook/client-api/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/@storybook/client-logger/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/@storybook/components/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/@storybook/core-events/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/@storybook/core/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

(node:6) MaxListenersExceededWarning: Possible EventEmitter memory leak detected. 11 SIGINT listeners added. Use emitter.setMaxListeners() to increase limit
Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/@storybook/node-logger/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/@storybook/router/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/@storybook/theming/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/@storybook/ui/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/babel-runtime/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/core-js-pure
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/karma/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/lazy-universal-dotenv/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/node-sass
node scripts/build.js

Binary found at /src/node_modules/node-sass/vendor/linux-x64-64/binding.node
Testing binary
Binary is fine

[email protected] postinstall /src/node_modules/core-js
node -e "try { require('./scripts/postinstall'); } catch (e) { /* empty */ }"

Thank you for using core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock/core-js )!

Please consider supporting of core-js on Open Collective or Patreon: > https://opencollective.com/core-js > https://www.patreon.com/zloirock
Also, the author of core-js ( https://github.com/zloirock ) is looking for a good job -)```

[zloirock]

@stefankip see #597

[stefankip]

Too bad all comments, which do not reflect the author's opinions, get deleted. Luckily the content is still preserved in the notification emails.
Even my comment is marked as spam, isn't that hilariously hypocritical?

[zloirock]

Dear @stefankip! I warned about it. I no longer intend to tolerate negative and non-constructive comments such as deleted:

I warn you for the last time, otherwise, you will be banned too. Your previous comment marked as spam since it's a duplicate, a PR for that already available and you even didn't use search before posting it. If you have any constructive proposals - write about it, otherwise, just keep silent.