Cataclysm-dda: Mod Inclusion Project: Boats

[DracoGriffin]

Use the following issue as a space to discuss the inclusion of:

Mod Ident: boats
Name: Boats

Your comment should include:

Suggestions for induction

(what parts of the mod should be included, can be as simple as just an item, a location or the complete inclusion)

Incompatibilities

(what parts of the mod should not be included, either some objects / items or entire mod is conflicting with DDA theme [ for whatever reason ])

[Rod995]

All the boats.
mod works fine right now
Once it's mainlined, we could add more support for it, like amphibious vehicles.

[FulcrumA]

Inclusion of boats would be good, but it should be done in a less hacky way than adding special type of wheels to the boat. Possibly should also include ways to add amphibious vehicles without the need to modify them every time since I bet you people will ask for that.

[Lorith]

That is something that would require a redo of the vehicle code, which is currently ongoing already. I would recommend including everything from the mod for now and fix the inability to do amphibious vehicles later.

[cake-pie]

I'd caution against inclusion.

Shoehorning flotation into pseudo-wheels is too much of a hack for my liking. It's nice to have the functionality that this mod offers for now, but I feel that it's really more of a stopgap measure until something more holistic and fully-fledged can be made.

My main concern is that moving this into DDA could create impediments against implementing better, more realistic boat / amphibious mechanics later. We don't know if the mechanics of this mod might conflict with some potential future approach.

Also, incorporating the mod into DDA leads to increased expectation that there will be support for transitioning from this set of mechanics to a new one, without massive save-breaking changes -- so, perhaps keeping the old items / vehicle parts available for some time before deprecating them, stuff like that -- which can be messy. Or it could mean that the new mechanics get held up until the next major release, to minimize disruption.

Keeping this as a mod means it is easier to make a clean cut and cease support once it has been superseded by new mechanics/features -- not obliged to deal with issues arising if people insist on using the mod together with new CDDA.

[Lorith]

Good point, I had not thought of that, so it kinda depends on how the vehicle recoding is being done.

[mlangsdorf]

Serious use of boats requires:

1. Proper support of flotation, starting with not using hacked wheels to determine flotation, and including support for leaks and taking on water.
2. A rework of the collision rules, so that boats can push creatures in deep water out of the way, instead of hammering themselves to destruction just by moving.
3. Reworking bridges, such that every bridge isn't a roadblock to exploring by boat. The simple and lame version would be adding drawbridges. My preferred version would be support for vehicle z-level transitions.
4. Preferably an improved physics model for boats, that better calculates boat speed.

The current boat mod is adequate for rowboats used to explore sewers or cross rivers; it starts to fail when confronted with motor boats used to move along a river. Resolving Items 1 and 2 are the minimum preconditions before we should attempt to mainline boats.

[cake-pie]

What I would hope to see eventually in a serious implementation: at least simplified hydrostatics, so the vessel may be considered listing at some angle depending on distribution of mass vs bouyancy. This would affect performance -- leading to infeasible to operate beyond some threshold.

[DracoGriffin]

Honestly, @cake-pie and @mlangsdorf pretty much summed up my review and I don't believe Boats mod is adequate in any regard to be included (even in the future, at that point, there will be most likely entirely different specifications for water-related vehicles), especially considering the massive vehicle code overhauls that would be necessary to make it sufficient.

Additionally, I believe this issue at least can serve as an initial jump-off point with the ideas/points the aforementioned have both made in supporting water-based vehicles.

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I think this is enough feedback to warrant closure and moving onto the next mod.

[mlangsdorf]

This issue is closed but starting progress on a better model for boats, see #27225

[mlangsdorf]

When #30519 is complete, I will look into mainlining Boats.