Arctos: Barcodes and Labels go together....

[Jegelewicz]

Any time I see a barcode, I would also like to see the label and vice versa. This would be a huge help when doing anything as barcodes are just numbers and without their labels they are pretty meaningless to humans and labels are created by humans which means they are prone to error. If we can see them together it helps locate objects in the collection and know what exactly we are looking for in one simple formula. Can we start with this?

Rather than individually checking each box and scrolling to the bottom of the page to see its barcode, can we just have the barcode display right next to the label? In this case, we have transcribed the barcode into the label, but recently discovered transcription errors....

[dustymc]

You DO see them both there??

This is more or less a duplicate of https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/1561 (and lots of overlap with lots more).

There's some related discussion (and sample data) in https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/1183. There's also some discussion of adding container type there.

This seems to flip-flop back and forth fairly often, requests come in for specific forms, and this is generally an inconsistent mess that involves way too much code. Can we come up with a solid unified approach that can be called form all container-including forms? I don't think there are any technical limitations, but labels (and container type) can be big, various views can include lots of things-with-barcodes, and screen real estate is limited - it's probably not too hard to come up with something that'll make most everything unreadable.

[Jegelewicz]

Yes you do see them, but only one at a time - it involves clicking through the whole list....

[campmlc]

I agree with Teresa. We are continually coming up with conflicts because if
a label exists we cannot see the barcode. Anytime we have both we need to
see both, globally. If people don't care about a label, then they don't
have to add one. If they do care, they need to see it, but also need the
barcode. This goes for all views, including "show all collection objects in
this container" and "flatten part positions" and loan forms etc.

The only reason you can see the barcode in the view Teresa loaded was
because we had to manually add the barcode to the label in order to both at
once, an untenable solution.

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 11:27 AM, dustymc [e-mail] wrote:

You DO see them both there??

[image: screen shot 2018-06-27 at 10 13 22 am]
https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/5720791/41989022-cfd6a15c-79f2-11e8-997f-9c590c6ef970.png

This is more or less a duplicate of #1561
https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/1561 (and lots of overlap
with lots more).

There's some related discussion (and sample data) in #1183
https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/1183. There's also some
discussion of adding container type there.

This seems to flip-flop back and forth fairly often, requests come in for
specific forms, and this is generally an inconsistent mess that involves
way too much code. Can we come up with a solid unified approach that can be
called form all container-including forms? I don't think there are any
technical limitations, but labels (and container type) can be big, various
views can include lots of things-with-barcodes, and screen real estate is
limited - it's probably not too hard to come up with something that'll make
most everything unreadable.

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[dustymc]

If people don't care about a label, then they don't have to add one.

They absolutely do - that is a NOT NULL field, and removing that constraint would provide the possibility of creating containers that have no identifiable component.

This goes for all views

That is what I'm asking for - what can we do that works everywhere?

[campmlc]

If they don't want a label that differs from a scannable barcode -
Can we just display both if they differ?

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018, 11:37 AM dustymc [e-mail] wrote:

If people don't care about a label, then they don't have to add one.

They absolutely do - that is a NOT NULL field, and removing that
constraint would provide the possibility of creating containers that have
no identifiable component.

This goes for all views

That is what I'm asking for - what can we do that works everywhere?

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[Jegelewicz]

Would it work if we put them in this format, no matter where any one of them appears?

Barcode (Container Type) Barcode Label

I get the screen space problem if labels are too long. Not sure I have an answer for that right now.

[dustymc]

display both if they differ

Probably. That MIGHT get expensive if there are lots, but I think we can do it. It would remove the ability to differentiate "has a barcode" and "just a label" - important? (I think that is important - those are wildly different types of data, see eg http://handbook.arctosdb.org/documentation/container.html#object-tracking-without-barcodes)

Barcode (Container Type) Barcode Label

UAM@ARCTOS> select getContainerParentage_BLT(14848352) from dual;

GETCONTAINERPARENTAGE_BLT(14848352)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MSB (institution) Museum of Southwestern Biology:DGR (collection) Genomic Resources:DGRCERIA324 (room) 324 LN2 Room:DGR-
C01 (freezer) CRYO-01:DGRC1A (bay) CRYO1-A:DGRC1A2 (freezer rack) CRYO1-A2:DGR16903 (freezer box) DGR16903 DGR2-1-9

[Jegelewicz]

Bringing this up because it is slowing down work we are doing to meet a grant deadline.

On the "Find containers which are in positions and do not have children" results, can we also display the barcode label? As it is, I have to click each item separately to see what is in it.

I see this:

and I would like to see this:

[campmlc]

I second this, also for find containers, flatten parts, specimen
parts/path, and parts being selected for loan. We need to be able to see
both the label and the barcode anytime one is displayed.

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018, 5:24 PM Teresa Mayfield-Meyer <
[email protected]> wrote:

Bringing this up because it is slowing down work we are doing to meet a
grant deadline.

On the "Find containers which are in positions and do not have children"
results, can we also display the barcode label? As it is, I have to click
each item separately to see what is in it.

I see this:
[image: image]
https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/5725767/46179591-3cb31200-c279-11e8-9cf5-abbf689fa9a5.png

and I would like to see this:
[image: image]
https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/5725767/46179776-13df4c80-c27a-11e8-93f6-f9656f8ac8ef.png

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[dustymc]

Maybe I wasn't being clear.

I'd really like to have one _thing_ that we can sprinkle around wherever containers are used.

I think we're all on the same page there, but I don't know what ya'll want or how we're going to make it fit.

Barcode+label+type is probably best, but that gets long fast (and maybe it's just overwhelming==not "best").

I don't know if we have the processors to support showing only one value when barcode=label or not (probably??), and I think it's potentially confusing - there have been a ~half-dozen times when someone changed a label so it didn't match a barcode and the resulting confusion made messes. It's still compact and contains everything-ish, which is nice.

I really need an answer to that before I can go very far, and I'm probably going to need some help making space for it depending on what that answer is.

I'll try to patch something in to that table, although I think that's probably also better done in the "standard" format (if we had such a thing!) - seeing the same thing in multiple views pretty much always leads to fewer mistakes.

[campmlc]

It is actually preferable if we can see both barcode and label, even if
they are the same, in our collection, because we have labels without
bacodes and vice versa and it is helpful to see which ones need to be
added. Is this something that different collection could customize, e.g.
choose whether or not to see one or the other? Would that make processing
better or worse?

On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 8:49 PM dustymc [e-mail] wrote:

Maybe I wasn't being clear.
I'd really like to have one thing that we can sprinkle around wherever
containers are used.

I think we're all on the same page there, but I don't know what ya'll want
or how we're going to make it fit.

Barcode+label+type is probably best, but that gets long fast (and maybe
it's just overwhelming==not "best").

I don't know if we have the processors to support showing only one value
when barcode=label or not (probably??), and I think it's potentially
confusing - there have been a ~half-dozen times when someone changed a
label so it didn't match a barcode and the resulting confusion made messes.
It's still compact and contains everything-ish, which is nice.

I really need an answer to that before I can go very far, and I'm probably
going to need some help making space for it depending on what that answer
is.

I'll try to patch something in to that table, although I think that's
probably also better done in the "standard" format (if we had such a
thing!) - seeing the same thing in multiple views pretty much always leads
to fewer mistakes.

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[dustymc]

barcode and label

OK, agreed - that would have prevented some past problems. I need a format. I think it's probably best if it visually distinguishes them - eg, not

barcode - label

because people (me anyways!) will quickly lose track of the order. It also needs to work when there's no barcode (eg, positions). Maybe something like

[ barcode ] label

which turns in to

[ ] label

Do we include container_type? I can do it if ya'll need it - this certainly isn't a technical problem - but that's a LOT of information to print on a screen or try to absorb.

different collection

I can't think of a single legitimate "in MY collection...." argument. Pretty much all of those turn out to be SOMEONE doing it wrong, and it's hard to imagine how this could be different.

If we did do something like that, it would be a fair bit more expensive computationally (an extra join or two for every operation), a significant increase in the complexity of the code, and more or less impossible to maintain. And that would block the more efficient pathways that inevitably come around from sharing data and ideas - some collection would have found a much more efficient way of doing something you do, and you'd never know about it because they're just requesting changes to THEIR code.

[campmlc]

This works:

[ barcode ] label

which turns in to

[ ] label

Container type would be helpful. We have a lot of legacy containers that
were scanned in as "Nalgenes" that need to be fixed - this would help
identify those. But I agree we don't want to clutter too much. Can we do
all three - barcode, label, and container - and see a mockup of what it
would look like in test?

On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 8:07 AM dustymc [e-mail] wrote:

barcode and label

OK, agreed - that would have prevented some past problems. I need a
format. I think it's probably best if it visually distinguishes them - eg,
not

barcode - label

because people (me anyways!) will quickly lose track of the order. It also
needs to work when there's no barcode (eg, positions). Maybe something like

[ barcode ] label

which turns in to

[ ] label

Do we include container_type? I can do it if ya'll need it - this
certainly isn't a technical problem - but that's a LOT of information to
print on a screen or try to absorb.

different collection

I can't think of a single legitimate "in MY collection...." argument.
Pretty much all of those turn out to be SOMEONE doing it wrong, and it's
hard to imagine how this could be different.

If we did do something like that, it would be a fair bit more expensive
computationally (an extra join or two for every operation), a significant
increase in the complexity of the code, and more or less impossible to
maintain. And that would block the more efficient pathways that inevitably
come around from sharing data and ideas - some collection would have found
a much more efficient way of doing something you do, and you'd never know
about it because they're just requesting changes to THEIR code.

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[dustymc]

There are a bunch of examples above and in linked issues.

[campmlc]

From the MSB DGR perspective, yes, it would be very useful to us to see barcode and label and container, e.g.
MSB (institution) Museum of Southwestern Biology:DGR (collection) Genomic Resources:DGRCERIA324 (room) 324 LN2 Room:DGR-CRYO-01 (freezer) CRYO-01:DGRC1A (bay) CRYO1-A:DGRC1A2 (freezer rack) CRYO1-A2:DGR16903 (freezer box) DGR16903 DGR2-1-9

Yes, it is cluttered, but it has in one place all the information that we currently have to search through multiple forms to find.
@KyndallH
@amgunderson
@DerekSikes

[dustymc]

That format makes my brain sad. How about this:

UAM@ARCTOS> select getContainerParentage_tff(14848352) from dual;

GETCONTAINERPARENTAGE_TFF(14848352)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ MSB ] (institution) Museum of Southwestern Biology:[ DGR ] (collection) Genomic Resources:[ DGRCERIA324 ] (room) 324 L
N2 Room:[ DGR-C01 ] (freezer) CRYO-01:[ DGRC1A ] (bay) CRYO1-A:[ DGRC1A2 ] (freezer rack) CRYO1-A2:[ DGR16903 ] (freezer
 box) DGR-2-01-09 DGR16903

from

 select '[ ' || barcode || ' ] (' ||container_type || ') ' || label

Let me know if you want to see that from some other container, change anything, whatever. I'm not sure I like : as a separator but I can't find anything I like better...

[campmlc]

Can we put it in barcode -label -container type order? That makes my brain
a lot happier. It helps to see the consistency/relationship between the
barcode and the label of a single container, and to separate the text of
the label of one parent from the barcode of the child.

On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 9:33 AM dustymc [e-mail] wrote:

That format makes my brain sad. How about this:

UAM@ARCTOS> select getContainerParentage_tff(14848352) from dual;

GETCONTAINERPARENTAGE_TFF(14848352)

[ MSB ] (institution) Museum of Southwestern Biology:[ DGR ] (collection) Genomic Resources:[ DGRCERIA324 ] (room) 324 L
N2 Room:[ DGR-C01 ] (freezer) CRYO-01:[ DGRC1A ] (bay) CRYO1-A:[ DGRC1A2 ] (freezer rack) CRYO1-A2:[ DGR16903 ] (freezer
box) DGR-2-01-09 DGR16903

from

select '[ ' || barcode || ' ] (' ||container_type || ') ' || label

Let me know if you want to see that from some other container, change
anything, whatever. I'm not sure I like : as a separator but I can't find
anything I like better...

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[dustymc]

GETCONTAINERPARENTAGE_TFF(14848352)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ MSB ] Museum of Southwestern Biology (institution):[ DGR ] Genomic Resources (collection):[ DGRCERIA324 ] 324 LN2 Room
 (room):[ DGR-C01 ] CRYO-01 (freezer):[ DGRC1A ] CRYO1-A (bay):[ DGRC1A2 ] CRYO1-A2 (freezer rack):[ DGR16903 ] DGR-2-01
-09 DGR16903 (freezer box)

[campmlc]

Yes, that looks great, thanks.

On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 9:54 AM dustymc [e-mail] wrote:

GETCONTAINERPARENTAGE_TFF(14848352)

[ MSB ] Museum of Southwestern Biology (institution):[ DGR ] Genomic Resources (collection):[ DGRCERIA324 ] 324 LN2 Room
(room):[ DGR-C01 ] CRYO-01 (freezer):[ DGRC1A ] CRYO1-A (bay):[ DGRC1A2 ] CRYO1-A2 (freezer rack):[ DGR16903 ] DGR-2-01
-09 DGR16903 (freezer box)

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[dustymc]

Official Arctos Container Squishing Guidelines are http://handbook.arctosdb.org/documentation/container.html#display-format and I changed some stuff (mostly in next release, but the stuff that's build in the DB should be working now).

Closing this for now - please open an Issue if I missed anything (and I'm sure I did).

[campmlc]

This looks great so far. I'll check again when in production.
Thanks!

On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 3:33 PM dustymc [e-mail] wrote:

Official Arctos Container Squishing Guidelines are
http://handbook.arctosdb.org/documentation/container.html#display-format
and I changed some stuff (mostly in next release, but the stuff that's
build in the DB should be working now).

Closing this for now - please open an Issue if I missed anything (and I'm
sure I did).

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[Jegelewicz]

Is this one of the forms that will eventually display barcode AND label? If not, we need it to.

[dustymc]

Next release:

here too:

[KyndallH]

I'm a bit concerned about this change in regards to how I sort tissue locations for loans. I guess when it is released and it screws up my stuff, I can yell and we can fix it. Right?

[dustymc]

Yes, but if we fix it I'd like to do so by changing http://handbook.arctosdb.org/documentation/container.html#display-format - I'm digging the idea of having one THING to sprinkle around.

[campmlc]

Re-opening. So far this has helped tremendously, but I have another form that I need to see the barcode as well as the label for - the flatten part locations form for download. I use this form to find parts when given a list of catalog numbers; then I need to be able to use the download to bulkload the parts to a loan, which means I need to extract the barcodes for each part, which I can't do if I only see the label.
@dustymc

[campmlc]

I agree with the data structure of this, but also agree that we needed a simplified version of the output to use for actually downloading and printing out container locations. I spend easily 30 min per loan massaging the output before I can use it or hand it to students to pull tissues. Sometimes I make mistakes and potentially compromise the data and samples pulled. I could write an excel macro except that the data are not consistent enough for this to work. I'd have to run multiple macros. I haven't tried using last part location. Is that an option?

[dustymc]

Last part location does not involve containers.

"Part path" can be different, as long as it's consistent, but I can't see how this could be simpler than a delimited string.

I don't understand why you need any outside tools. Container-->flatten parts, or the tree from which it comes, should be all anyone needs to find anything in a barcoded collection. That doesn't seem to be the case, how can we make it so?

[campmlc]

We need to be able to print a report = spreadsheet in a format that allows
all required information to fit on a page, and simple enough that a student
can immediately see the location hierarchy without having to sort out
barcodes and labels and container types. This format will likely vary by
collection.

On Wed, Jan 6, 2021 at 8:41 PM dustymc [e-mail] wrote:

• [EXTERNAL]*

Last part location does not involve containers.

"Part path" can be different, as long as it's consistent, but I can't see
how this could be simpler than a delimited string.

I don't understand why you need any outside tools. Container-->flatten
parts, or the tree from which it comes, should be all anyone needs to find
anything in a barcoded collection. That doesn't seem to be the case, how
can we make it so?

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[dustymc]

https://github.com/ArctosDB/arctos/issues/3578, closing.